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How to get measurable ROI from your podcast ft. Jay Wong of Podcast Your Brand (Inbound Success, Ep. 166)

How to get measurable ROI from your podcast ft. Jay Wong of Podcast Your Brand (Inbound Success, Ep. 166) Blog Feature

October 26th, 2020 min read

Can podcasting help you generate leads and close deals? Most experts say "no" when asked this question. Jay Wong says "yes."

Transparent Headshot copy (1)This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Podcast Your Brand founder Jay Wong shares the strategies he uses to help his clients hit the Top 100 when they launch new podcasts and then create podcast content that actually generates ROI for their businesses.

Jay is a successful podcaster himself, and he's parlayed his experience into a successful consultancy that advises brands both big (think Proctor and Gamble) and small on how to get results with podcasting.

In this episode, he shares advice that any podcaster can use to make sure the launch of a new podcast is successful, and tips on creating podcast content that will push your customers further along their buying journey.

Check out the full episode, or read the transcript below, for details.

Resources from this episode:

 

Kathleen Booth and Jay Wong
Jay and Kathleen recording this episode

Transcript

Kathleen (00:01): Welcome back to the inbound success podcast. I am your host, Kathleen Booth. And this week, my guest is Jay Wong. Who is the CEO of podcast your brand. Welcome to the podcast, Jay,

Jay (00:29): Super excited to be here with you, Kathleen and excited to dive into a bit of podcasts.

Kathleen (00:34): Yeah. before we get too deep in, maybe you could start by sharing your story and who you are, what you do, how you came to do it.

Jay (00:46): Sure. For sure. So I think like a lot of people that love the medium of podcasting, you know, started with, you know, high hopes of, Hey, let's go out, build an audience and be able to serve that audience. Right. And so I figured out how to launch my own podcast about five, six years ago now podcasting was very different in, in 2015 than it is at the time of recording this.

And I figured out how to get my own show into the top 100 back then, there was this, you know, we're not just talking about like new and noteworthy, if some of your listeners and business owners know what, what I'm referring to, but actual top 100 in the iTunes section. And that actually got me my first, like 50 to a hundred email subscribers, right? Like this is how different podcasting was, you know, back back then.

Jay (01:40): And from there, other individuals always, you know, reached out other business owners, other entrepreneurs that said, Hey, I saw what you did with the podcast. Could you do it with our brand? Right. And so thus started, you know, a little bit of consulting. We built an online program. We did two day intensives. We spoke at all the biggest, you know, podcast conferences.

And, you know, one day when we were running a two day intensive one of my favorite kind of offers and services that especially when events was like a thing that people were, you know, when people could attend and, and, and actually that's in the past tense, unfortunate, hopefully it comes back because it's still one of my favorite, like, you know, models. And, and I just absolutely love it. But we, I remember we had, we had a lady at one of our events.

Jay (02:27): She came up to me, she said, Jay, I love what you stand for around podcasting. I love, you know, your way of thinking about it in terms of just making it a real marketing channel for our business. She was in real estate at that time you know, super successful on, in her own. Right. And she said, look, I'm just never going to do any of this. And I that's, that's just the truth.

Right. but I would be open to writing you and your team, a bigger check, if you could figure out how I could just show up how I could just show up record. Right. And we can implement all those awesome things that you just showed us in the last couple of days. And I'd be very open to do it with you for the next year. Right. And so that, wasn't the first time that I heard a abbreviated offer like that for our agency, our done for you.

Jay (03:15): And to end, you know, service it wasn't something that I woke up that day and thought, you know what, today's the day we're going to do an agency. But we worked with a couple other clients. We worked with her, we figured out what actually works in our process. And now we've gotten the opportunity in the last two and a half years to be really behind the scenes of hundreds of top 100 launches.

And not only did we get the shows and the brands into the top 100, we could talk more about that, but really we build them a customized ROI plan, right? So for some of the companies we're working with, they're looking to drive new members. They're looking at this as a retention strategy. They're looking at this as, as a new way of promoting their products and services.

And those last two and a half years have been such an amazing adventure. And I say two and a half years because, you know, we all know so much can just happen in such a short period of time, but more or less, that's ultimately how we got all the way to the agency podcasts, your brand that you see and hear about today.

Kathleen (04:15): That's awesome. And it's so interesting to me to hear you talk about that journey because I had my first podcast right around 2015, the same time you did. And I mean, I did a terrible job at it because I just literally knew I wanted to podcast and I kind of jumped in without a really good plan. And I mean, it was a great learning experience, but, but it, it sort of taught me all the things not to do. You know, and then I, and then I ended that podcast and started this one, which has been a completely different experience.

And as I've, I mean, I'm now like three years in, and as I've progressed with this podcast, I've seen podcasting really kind of take off and other people get more interested and, and then covert hit. And it was like, I thought podcasting was hot.

And then it was just not to be goofy, but like, I mean, everybody, like I'm in a couple of online groups with heads of marketing from a lot of different companies and all of a sudden it was like every single person was talking about podcasting, which I just thought was so interesting because it's been around forever. Like it's been around a long, long time

Jay (05:22): Hundred percent, hundred percent.

Kathleen (05:24): Yeah. And it's just taken off in recent months

Jay (05:27): For sure. I, I, we, during the months of April and may, we had so many companies reach back out to us and said, Hey, remember that idea that you pitched us six months ago or a quarter a year ago. Right. We're going to do it now. And, you know, because we believe this would be an amazing time to be able to kind of capture some of that awareness and be able to add our two cents on the craziness and madness of the world, you know?

And right around that time, we were the the, the show for Proctor and Gamble for their alumni network. And you know, man, we learned so much in, in those compress two, three months, I think we did like 10 launches. And within like a week apart of each other, it was just a crazy, crazy, you know, quarter. But you're absolutely right. More and more people I think, but even three years ago it was, it went from this like new media, you know, maybe it's the future of voice, right.

Like it was right around there. Should it be a nice to have versus now I think a lot of companies are looking at it and saying, okay, we need to be the voice for whatever the industry, whatever the niche that we stand for and that, you know, this might be one of the ways that we can be able to do that. Yeah.

Kathleen (06:43): It's, it's fascinating. Now you mentioned Proctor and Gamble. You've done work with all kinds of different brands when it comes to podcasting. Can you name a few others?

Jay (06:58): Yeah. So you know, we worked with another company called StackAdapt. They built their own native advertising, programmatic ads platform. I'm pretty sure they're the largest one specifically in Canada outside of Google. But certainly they've won tons of awards in the U S as well as in Canada.

We've worked with, you know, if people are familiar with like student works or college works or college pro pretty much every company in North America that has that model, we've partnered with them to be able to grow their retention and grow their communities.

A lot of, you know, influencers, bestselling authors not just Amazon best selling authors, but real you know, credible, amazing individuals that, you know, have digital presences and digital backends as well. We tend to do really well for those guys as well.

Kathleen (07:57): And you help companies through all aspects of the podcasting life cycle. You know, when you and I first connected, I, I, and we talked and we were talking about kind of what you do with podcasters. I think my initial response was, you know, we've talked a lot about podcasting on this podcast. It's, it's sort of funny, it's, it's a hot topic as one might expect. And I'm always looking for, what's a different way we can talk about it.

And one of the reasons I was really excited to chat with you is that a couple of the things that you brought up really are things that we haven't covered yet. You know, number one, being how to really come out of the gate strong.

So when you launch your podcast, I think the Holy grail is getting in the top lists the top 100 or the top of this. So I want to start with that because we've covered in the past, like how to strategize what your podcast should be about and how to record and all of that. But let's talk about how to launch really successfully. Yeah. So

Jay (08:56): Really quick even added caveat for your listeners, is that what we're about to talk about right here? Even if you have a podcast this is still applicable, right? It's it's and, and yeah. So I think that's, that's, I get asked that question all the time. Hey, Jay, we've been podcasts in the last couple years, these are our stats.

This is where we're at, right. Is it too late for us to hit the top 100, hit the top 200? You know, I would say this before we dive in as well, which is internally. And I think we talked about this internally. We refer to hitting the top 100 as the end of phase one, right? Because it is not the end all be all you're you're, it's not like the whole, it's not like there's a pre top 100, you know, life is pretty top 100 and life post, top 100.

Jay (09:43): But I do find that if we're going to spend all this time and all this energy and all of other people's energy to hop on the podcast, I think if you want to be able to launch very strongly, then it's going to be one of your better opportunities to get out of the gate. Right.

And to be able to position the podcast and position to host, even create the right platform for future guests. Right. And just make your own guests feel amazing to be able to be featured on any platform. Right. I think these are just some of the things that you might be thinking about. When we're looking at a launch specifically, the iTunes algorithm works on a couple components, but really the main one is being able to increase your subscribers of that podcast, right?

Anything that you could do to be able to do that, whether you're running a, you know, a contest, rather you're writing paid ads, there's so many different ways of going about it.

Jay (10:44): But a lot of times for our own clients, we build them based on their email list, based on the assets that they have are ready. We build them essentially a plan to be able to capitalize on their current assets, to be able to drive those subscriptions so that they can get out of the gate really, really strong and really form a community around their podcasts, because that's really prepping us to go into phase two as well. You know, talking about the ROI and new traffic. It just positions us to be able to win the whole game that much better. Does that make sense?

Kathleen (11:14): Yes. And I have a bunch of questions. So I've done a lot of reading about launching new podcasts and I've read different things. And I'm curious to get your take. The first question is I have read a number of articles that say that when you launch, you should launch with more than one episode. So it's not like, Hey, we've launched here's episode one. It's like, Hey, we've launched here's episodes, you know, one through five or one through eight. Sure, sure. But I've also read the opposite. So I'd love to get your opinion on that.

Jay (11:48): Yeah. You know, it's I, I've been seeing this trend more and more right. Where they'll essentially, and these are like really well known athletes or well known celebrities that are doing this as well. Keep in mind any strategy that you see any type of popular influencer or popular celebrity doing chances are that you cannot actually replicate what they're doing because of that celebrity factor. A

nd they probably are bringing, you know, millions and hundreds of thousands of followers. Right. We've worked with people where you know, they'll have 2 million and Instagram following, right. Their numbers and their downloads. It's not going to be comparable right. To somebody that might not have that social capital. And, and, and, you know, you're not bringing that into the launch with that all, you know, so I've seen this trend where they'll release like a trailer. Right.

Jay (12:39): And it's like, it's coming soon, you know? And it's like a, maybe like a three to five kind of like a movie trailer I imagine. Right. And then maybe a couple of weeks after then they'll start releasing on like a weekly schedule. What have you I think of the launch like this, as in Kathleen, let's go try out a, this new restaurant down the street. We've heard amazing things about it.

Our friends are friends with the owner. Right. And when we go in there, can we, you know, since we're trying out the place, let's order a couple appetizers, let's get a couple drinks, let's go through the whole experience of it a little bit. Right. And so I'm a very big believer that you definitely don't. I think you don't want to just release a trailer. You don't want to just leave them with one episode.

Jay (13:25): You know, if you look at the statistics of podcasts is right and, you know, for any of your listeners are marketers and business owners, you get, you guys could, could look this up as well, but I'm pretty sure when they released stats earlier this year, people spend on average, you know, six plus hours listening to podcasts is right. And I think they also spend on average listening to five to six different shows. So think about this, you're introducing them to a new show yet.

There's only one episode there. Right. So we'd like to mix it up in that first batch, anywhere from three to five episodes. I think when you go beyond five, it gets a little, almost like too much. Even at five, I would feel like, Ugh, I don't know which one is going to be the best suited for me. Right. Three, four definitely would work. Right.

Just in terms of just, Hey, here's a bit of a solo, here's a, maybe a longer form interview. Here's a, you know, some, you know, our, our welcome type of, you know, episode, right. So it just gives them kind of a full experience of what is to come. Right.

Kathleen (14:26): That makes sense to me. And it also intuitively makes sense because I, I feel like in the last couple of years, we've really become trained as human beings to expect, to be able to binge content, you know, the whole Netflix model of releasing the whole season at one time.

And there's this level of frustration that arises when all of a sudden you're, you don't have availability, especially if it's something you really like, you know? And so I can see where that would make sense, because if I, if I'm come in and I get a taste of episode one, and I'm like, this is really good. I'm going to want, I just did this.

I just did this. I'll also give an example. And I don't know how many episodes they released at once, but I discovered the, the podcast, nice white parents, which is by Serial and the New York times.

Kathleen (15:18): I just discovered it this past weekend. And I listened to, I think it was eight episodes or 10, one of the two, the whole, the whole podcast is it's. Cause it's not a, a podcast that goes on forever. And I literally listened to all 10 episodes in like a day or so, because it was good. I got hooked and I wanted more.

And I think it's very easy to lose that momentum if somebody listens to one and they like it, and then they don't have that habit developed yet. Because to me it's all about building a habit. And if you haven't formed a habit yet, and then you are not able to satisfy that craving with another episode, I think it, it, it jeopardizes the longevity of your listener.

Jay (16:01): It's so good. What you're saying right now, because one of the things that we have to remind our clients, right. And just keep this in mind, but like, are I, I'm all for like, and podcast, this is, what's so beautiful about podcasting nowadays, is that there, you know, now Hollywood studios, right. Are, are shifting gears and they're deploying resources to be able to create some amazing audio programs. Right. Just think of your favorite type of true crime show.

They're doing some really interesting things with like the history, you know channel and, and that, and that type of genre. But the shows that we specifically work on are a lot of times, you know, businesses, CEOs, and there's a whole brand behind it. They chances are they have different products and services. Right. And so when you're introducing a podcast, we're not just training are the hosts or the CEO, or whoever's running the, or whoever's the voice of the program to be able to create and get into the flow of creating the episodes. Right.

You're also training the audience to receive the, the, the, the episodes from you to actually see that every single week or twice a week or whatever the cadence is right. To say, Oh yeah, that, that is what that's, what's, what's going on. So to your point, forming that habit right away, it's very, very important right. Out of the gate.

Kathleen (17:22): Yeah. Now, so, so if somebody starting out, you would have them do a couple of episodes for the launch. Talk me through the rest of your process for making sure that launch is strong. What are you doing to, to drive people to those first episodes?

Jay (17:39): Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's funny. Cause we, we had to make this distinction for even art, the business owners that we work with because we realized that some of them had, you know, this is one of the first launches that, that they were doing. Right. And so they would be after the first week, they would be, you know, pretty, you know, energy like exhausted, right.

Because they, you know, they've just gotten a flood of emails and DMS and messages and questions and they're all social channels are being blown up. Right. But we always flick at the launch as this nice little two to three week period where once again, we're training the listeners to actually be able to tune in, we're publishing a little more on the front end before we go into a weekly cadence or a biweekly cadence, whatever it ends up working out for said business, but you're really forming, I think the beginning of the community around your show.

Jay (18:36): Right? So a lot of our clients they'll have some sort of a community aspect of this, right? Some of them, even the Proctor and Gamble one that we mentioned their main, their whole thing was, Hey, let's drive new members in our alumni network. So there's, this is more of like a, a paid, you know, network, you know, you gotta be a part of it. Right.

But there are, you got, gotta keep this in mind, we call this the triangle effect within podcasts, your brand, which are three things that you want to really cycle your audience through. Right. The number one is the podcast or your main content channel, number two, basic for marketers and business owners out there.

But it's going to be an email list. Right. So just even getting that cadence down, because so many times how guilty are we as business owners that we know that every time we email the list or we do it right.

Jay (19:27): You know, that that list is an amazing asset for our business. But so many of our clients, they, you know, maybe they, they, they, they don't know what to say. They, you know, they don't have the podcast right away. So once again, it goes back into training and that third piece is that community piece. Right. So whichever section that you're in, right. And this is something that we train there, the, our clients' teams on, if you're on the email list, you're promoting to the other two, right. If you're on the community, you're promoting to the other two. So if you're, Hey, have you heard the last podcast episode, Hey, go over here, sign up for our webinar coming up. Right. If you're on the email list right there, they're already signed up or what have you, Hey, you know, have you heard the latest episode?

Jay (20:08): How have you joined our discussion in our community? Right. So it's, it's th does that make sense? So you're kind of, it seems like you're everywhere, but really there's just three places. Right? And if you think about that breakdown from a consumer perspective, right? You've got their phone covered, you got the social media covered, you got their inbox covered.

And the podcast really covers all those other moments that they might've been alone, you know, and they might've been alone cleaning the house. They might've been alone gardening. They might've been, you know, alone just wanting to be able to geek out on a certain topic, you know, and they might be listening to a show about inbound marketing, right. So it's all those little moments that our hosts and our, our, the people we work with, they get a chance to connect with their perfect customer.

Kathleen (20:52): So true story. I listen to podcasts when I vacuum, when I grocery shop and when I exercise. So the examples you gave are totally spot on. So my question about that though, is, does that mean you have to have already a large email list in order to do this well, like, you know, what, if somebody comes to you and they don't have a big list. Yeah.

Jay (21:17): So I think this is a really good question because not everybody has 2 million Instagram followers and not everybody has this massive email list, even though they might've been told that, you know, for months and years. Right. look, I think you have to understand that you're starting from where you're starting at, you know, and we got to leverage, you know, if you have none of these assets, there is no community, there is no email lists.

Well, we're going to, in that process, we're going to help you start building some of these assets. Right. And it's going to go more into our, you know, our phase two, which is focused around new traffic ROI. Right. But you know, those are ultimately, you have to really have those, if you want to be able to maximize, we believe the podcasting channel and that whole experience around it.

Jay (22:04): Right. If you have an email list and you haven't been utilizing it, heck we've had clients where they come with a massive email list, but it's not really the right email lists for where they're going. Right. And so I think you have to understand that you're starting from where you're starting at.

You don't have to have all three before starting, but certainly within all of our clients, we get them the amazing top 100 podcasts. And typically we have an email list, even if it's just, you know, a 50 or a hundred people that we're starting out with. And, and we kind of start from there.

Kathleen (22:36): Got it. And you kind of gave me the segue into the second thing. I was really excited to talk to you about, which is that there's a lot of debate out there within the world of marketing and podcasting about like why, what you should expect to get out of hosting a podcast or producing and putting one on.

And I hear most people say, don't expect it to be a lead generator for your business. Don't expect to get deals from it. And I think in many cases, that's true, but I was really intrigued that when you reached out to me, you talked about having had some clients that have landed really big deals from it.

And it's, there's no straight line equation. I mean, podcasts, all podcasts are different, et cetera, et cetera. But I wanted to kind of pick your brain on this, this notion of how a podcast becomes a part of the marketing mix to help you grow your business.

Jay (23:35): I love this question and I love this topic. And I think personally, the last few years has created, and I don't want to use this like lightly, but really it's created a whole industry where people are creating content because they feel like the idea of creating content is moving their brand and business forward. And it's not to say that sometimes, you know, you have to track every single piece of content. You can't create content just for fun anymore.

You know, all marketers are ruining this. It's not to say that. But from a business owner standpoint, there are a lot of things that come up, whether it's Q and a, whether it is your objections. Okay. And maybe it's actually be easier if I share a little bit of a case study, think, go for it. Yeah. Like maybe I can do that because we worked with a client and, you know, we figured it out for her that her perfect client works with them.

Jay (24:37): Usually for about two to three years, she, you know, on a basic simplicity level, she helps people right around that half a million, you know, revenue part to be able to go into multi-millions. Right. It's not just a sales game, but it's actually like infrastructure operations, understanding finances team. Right?

Like there's, and that's why it usually takes that two to three year period. Right. For her, we figured out that there was about four different stages that, and I'm not talking about like, just like four stages of like your IP, like your, for profit activators. You know what I mean?

And I'm not necessarily referencing that, but four stages that she sees her clients kind of graduate from, right. Maybe stage one they're working to in the business. They're, you know, they can't see any growth. Right. They have a big vision, but not really anybody to support them.

Jay (25:32): Right. Like that, that would be stage one, stage four would be, they could sell their business, but they would never actually, you know, want to, you know, because they're actually so happy there, you know, 90% removed from any type of fulfillment, they just get to be their visionary. Right, so I'm just using this as a bit of example. Well, we created one of these episodes call, you know, the, the, the four stages of business growth. We obviously tailored it to her brand. Right.

And till today, like we created this like late 2018, still to the day, I'll get messages from her team and her cause we've become good friends by now say like, show those, showcase people, applying for calls with them, right. Applying to chat with their sales team or with her. And they'll reference that, Hey, you know, I heard this, this episode, right.

Jay (26:21): And I I'm, I'm a stage one entrepreneur, or I'm stuck in stage two. I've been stuck in stage two for the last two years. Right. And I would love to work with you because I, one day I would love to be in that stage four that you talked about. Right. And, you know, we're talking relatively higher ticket, you know, certainly, you know, done for you type of type of service.

And so for her, she's made a massive ROI from that. Right. And you know, once again, I think we have to tailor it for every single business. Right. But I would invite your listeners to think about this. What are all the biggest questions, most common questions you get asked, what are the biggest objections that come up over and over again?

How can we start tailoring and creating content that really looks to address some of these things, because what we're really doing is you're optimizing for the future sales conversations, right. We all have experienced what it's like to sell to somebody or somebody on your sales team has certainly experienced this, where they made an offer too early, right.

Where they pitched someone that was not really receptive or certainly would never even, you know, when it's not even at that stage where they could even think about it. Right. So we've all had that negative experience.

Jay (27:40): We've also all have hopped on calls where it wasn't really even an enrollment call or a sales call. Right. It was like, the person already knew what our values were. They knew what exactly what it is that we did. They knew what the result was. They knew what the outcome was.

They were just checking logistics when, when can we start? Okay, cool. Right. It's more of a friendly conversation than anything. So that's really what we're trying to emulate. Right. And we do this with every single client because their strategy is going to be different.

You know, some of those companies, I referenced earlier, student works as an example for them, it's not about generating the lead on the front end. It's about how they could get their entire company listening to the podcast so that they renew for year two, that they were new for them. Right. And so that changes exactly what we're going to talk about. That changes what content we're going to talk about. Right.

For them, it's about how can we embed that customer journey and weave it constantly in to, to the content that they're creating that one day, if they're a part of the company, if they're lucky to be a part of the company in the next three, four years, they might have a chance to be able to see these types of results. Does that make sense from a

Kathleen (28:50): Yeah. So wait, I'm fascinated by this second example you gave of basically like preventing churn via podcasts. So how, how do you create content that gets everybody in the company listening or like maximizes the number of people?

Jay (29:02): I think, I think the, I think a lot of times people get really especially in this industry, right. In the marketing industry, everything is all about like numbers. Right. Which is totally understandable. So it's like, how many times are we posting? What are the downloads? It's, it's these types of questions versus for our clients.

We're trying to get the most out of all the content pieces, right. If we're comparing, create one intentional piece of content, we're, it's kind of like we're planting that content on an external channel. Right. But internally, and all of those indoctrination email sequences were pointing to very specific episodes.

It's never just, Hey, let's listen to listen to our podcasts. You know, it's listened to this episode on our podcast, right. Hey Kathleen, Hey, check out our top 100 podcasts.

Jay (29:55): That's good. Right. It's good. It's it's nice. But Kathleen, I saw that you were doing this project around inbound marketing. We just created this episode around inbound marketing, but I think you would find relevant. Right.

So when we think about the types of content, our clients are creating it's how, where is it that they want their customer to go? Where is it that your listeners want their customers to go? And how can you talk about the vision of it? Not necessarily the straight up tactics of today, there's episodes for that. Right.

But where is it that you could go? Right. And that's really how we're kind of essentially having these mini sales conversations every single time. And people still find amazing value from it because ultimately they see it as a reminder right. Of them going to where they, that, that ultimate destination, you know?

Jay (30:52): And I can't take full credit for this. There was a there I had a conversation with Dean Jackson. So shout out to the Dean who has a number of podcasts is one with Joe Polish. Another one where he does like live coaching in it.

So, you know, he asked me one time, what I thought the true purpose of a podcast was. And, you know, I don't remember exactly what I said, but we came to the conclusion that the true purpose of a podcast is really to have an ongoing conversation.

Right. It's kinda like if, you know, we all have people in our lives that are like the fitness fanatic people, you know, that every single time we see them, it feels like we should update them on like our high performance habits or, Hey, we're trying a new diet or, Hey, we, you know, I just started working out again.

Jay (31:39): Right. That's an ongoing conversation with that person versus let's say they might be chatting with you. And it's a little more about business marketing, right? That's that ongoing conversation.

So if you run a podcast, if you have any content marketing, what's that ongoing conversation for you, what's that ongoing conversation that you can remind your customers of that they're on this journey with you preferably for a very long period.

And that way you're increasing that LTV, you're being able to increase retention over time. And that's really what we start training our clients to start thinking about and leveraging the medium in this way.

Kathleen (32:13): I love that concept of kind of understanding your buyer's journey or that your customer's journey and, and tapping into that to create podcast content that resonates at different stages.

But I think there's a fine line there of, you could easily veer into something that's very self promotional or very product centric. So how do you advise your clients about keeping the podcast content educational, you know, and not, eh, but like still relevant to what you do and to that customer journey?

Jay (32:46): Yeah. So it's, it's a great point because I think when you tell people, Hey, go, you know, here's like, here's no rules go sell, right. It ends up becoming this like long, crazy, you know, sales pitch it's, you know, great content has that educational piece as well as, as entertaining pieces. Right.

And so, you know, we it's w this is a lot of coaching really, when we comes down to the content critiques of our, of our clients is how can we just get them out of like, you know, that, that expert teaching mode, right? How can we get them sharing a little bit authentically about who they are, right. Because don't forget what you said earlier.

And at the beginning of the show, podcasting has been around for a very long time before it was called podcasting before this top 100 stuff, before all the ROI conversations, it used to be two or three people that liked talking with each other geeking about geeking out about a certain topic.

Jay (33:45): And it didn't matter how many people are listening. Right. They just throw it the recording online, raw recording, right. Maybe a little bit of music here and there. And it would be called internet radio. Right. That's like the true essence of podcasting. I think that's why a lot of people love it. It's because it's this unfiltered raw version. It feels like we're listening to a conversation that we are privy to. And we get a chance to, you know, seat in the back and not really have anything to say about it. And we get to listen to some of these amazing conversations.

So how can we balance what it is that we want to be able to, you know, sell and, and that, that vision, and, you know, the customer journey, but also still have those human components. Right? So a lot of it comes down to storytelling, right?

Jay (34:35): A lot of it just like good marketing, you know, we have these things called the five connectors, right. And these are connectors. They don't all start with C. Right. But they're story connectors, you know, they're little nuanced things that you could do to be a better storyteller in the moment, right. In the podcast scenario. And that's ultimately how we try to find that balance. Because each time we have a client, they're not just becoming the voice for network marketing. They're not just becoming the boys for alternative medicine or conscious families or whatever the topic is that they stand for. We're also helping them find their voice. And it doesn't mean that they don't know how to speak. And a lot of them are very good speakers. A lot of them are great content creators, but what's that, what's that cadence, what's that flow.

That's going to work for the, or right. And that requires a little more artistry and a little more repetition for all of our hosts. But that's ultimately what we try to do is balance that because you don't want it be too scripted. And, you know, this is where you insert the call to action and to, you know, overly produced. But at the same time, you don't have it to be this like loosey goosey type of, you know, whatever you feel like podcast experience.

Kathleen (35:50): Yeah. It's so funny that you bring this up because I just had this conversation with somebody who's thinking of starting a podcast. And he said to me, I'm not a good interviewer. And I was like, well, one way to get better is to just start doing it. And you know, like the more you have to hear yourself, I'll never forget when I first started podcasting listening to my own episodes.

And I said the word. Yeah. And I still do it. Like when I start my sentences, you know, after a guest speaks, I'll say, yeah. And yeah. And this, and yeah. But what about that? And you become really aware of like, not only your own verbal ticks, but you know, your strengths and weaknesses and how you, how you are as an interviewer, as a conversationalist. And I think, I mean, at this point I'm like almost 170 episodes in, I don't, I don't have to do a lot of prep because like, I, I am so comfortable.

Kathleen (36:39): It's like second hand to me. But when you start in the beginning, you definitely, I agree with you that you don't want to be overly scripted, but you want to have like a loose framework within which to play that you can fall back on if you get stuck, if you're not sure what to ask, there's that degree of comfort there that, Oh, okay.

I have these five open ended questions that I know I can ask, and it will just set my guest off on, you know, riffing on a topic that they love. But that's something that I think I discovered on my own, cause I wasn't working with anyone, but I could see where it'd be valuable, valuable to have a company like yours. Kind of guiding me in that process and shortening the learning curve in the beginning.

Jay (37:23): Yeah. Well, I mean, we all know frameworks and this is something we have to tell everybody, right. Which is like, look, we can talk about frameworks. We could probably have an entire different podcast episode on just frameworks, solo episode frameworks, interview frameworks, right. And, and, and, you know, storytelling frameworks and from a high level, you know, but at the end of the day, there's nothing that beats that natural curiosity, that natural energy or flow that that host has.

And as you probably have experienced, and it probably can attest to, it takes a little bit, it takes just a little bit of time to be able to find that, that, that comfort level. Right. But if business owners or marketers out there that do a lot of content marketing right there, chances are, they're going to love you no longer form conversations even solo episodes. And I think it translates those skills, communication skills translate quite well when it comes to podcasts.

Kathleen (38:20): Yeah. Totally agree. Well, we are coming up on our time. So a couple of things as we wrap up the conversation the first is, can you give me just some quick examples of clients you've worked with, who've seen amazing from this, whether it's a great launch or great ROI, you've peppered a few in the conversation, any others that you want to mention?

Jay (38:43): Yeah. So we worked with a, a different SaaS company. They have multiple verticals that they're going after. We created pretty much think of it like a mini series per vertical, right.

So much so that each salesperson responsible for whichever vertical or whoever you're chatting with, they would essentially have once again, these audio assets that they could go back to the client or a prospective client with, or go back to the prospect with and say, Hey, we actually created, if you're in the real estate niche, we created this mini series on how to be able to leverage what we do in the real estate world. Right.

So context right away, they were able to get a client on the, like the second day of their launch, because we had launched with three, four different episodes. They had segmented their lists and said, Hey, if you're in this niche, listen to this one.

Jay (39:31): Right. Don't just support the launch. But listen to this episode that just created some great conversation starters there. Right. and, and they were able to see an ROI right off the bat. Other of our clients have went on, built the community, built up a bit of audience. They didn't have that email list coming in. And then maybe six months down the line, they opened up a coaching program. Even if it was like a beta version of side coaching program, they opened up their mastermind that they've been wanting to do. Right. So you can kind of pick and choose which product and service you want to be able to go. But yeah, so those are some off the top of my mind. Love it.

Kathleen (40:08): All right. Totally changing gears now. So I have two questions I ask all of my guests at the end of the podcast, and now it's your turn. Okay. the first one is this podcast is all about inbound marketing. And I'm curious, is there a particular company or individual that you think is really knocking it out of the park when it comes to great inbound marketing these days?

Jay (40:31): So it's so funny because like you told me that you're going to ask me this. So the first company that comes to mind is HubSpot for whatever reason. Absolutely. And you know, I know that you, you know, there there's some, you know, affiliation and all that good stuff, but yeah. I mean, look, we're talking about them, so it's, it's working. And you know, I, I think they do a superb job.

Kathleen (40:55): Oh they are absolutely amazing. And you would not be the first person who mentioned them, so that's definitely to their credit.

Jay (41:03): Yeah. I added another point. Yeah,

Kathleen (41:05): Seriously. Second question. Most marketers that I talk to, one of their biggest pain points is that they have a really hard time keeping up with just all the developments in the world of digital marketing. It's changing so quickly. So how do you personally stay up to date and keep yourself,

Jay (41:24): Okay. This is a pretty interesting question because I think we're living in a world where it's noisier than ever. And I see this happen to business owners and marketers, all the, where they get so excited about it. It could be anything. It doesn't mean the thing that they're getting super excited about doesn't, you know, is not applicable or, or, or works. Regardless of it's a mini webinar or a quiz funnel, podcasts, a tech talk, right. Like it, all of them work. Right. But I'm a big believer of mastery of platforms.

And, you know, I'm not saying that just because we have all these amazing things for podcasting, it doesn't mean that your business like it, it might not be a good fit for your business, right. It's, it's, I'm not a big believer that everybody should have a podcast. Every business should, should, should do that. So the way I actually keep myself up to date with it is I pick one each year, just try to pick one marketing, like initiative and one marketing platform to just truly master. And I find, or at least the last few years I have found it to be more fruitful. Just from my productivity and my focus.

Kathleen (42:32): That's really good advice. I suspect a lot of people will struggle with that because we, as marketers also suffer from shiny penny syndrome.

Jay (42:42): It's business owners. Right. And I think that the question I ultimately asked myself about a year and a bit ago, which what kind of business and what kind of life do am I going to be happy with? Right. Do I want to, you know, find cool little hacks and things to create a little bit of momentum?

Or could I find something to really double, triple, quadruple down on and actually just be able to dominate it. Right. And so it's like, I totally hear you because I think so many entrepreneurs and so many marketers in general, they want to be able to say, Hey, you know what I know about this, I know about this. And all of it is really amazing, I think you just have to choose. Yeah.

Kathleen (43:18): Absolutely. All right. Well, we're, we're at our time. So if somebody is listening and they want to reach out and ask you a question, learn more about what you're talking about or connect with you online, what is the best way for them to do that?

Jay (43:32): So two different spots. One is, if you want to see our entire podcast process from beginning to end, like we lay out all four stages, we call it the top 100 buyers podcast system. You can go see that whole system at doneforyoupodcast.com. If you want to reach out to me and socially stalk me, probably Instagram is the best way to being able to go do that. We post there pretty much daily and our websites, podcasts, your brand in case you want to dive into some other case studies and you want to see every, you know, all the deliverables and all that good stuff.

Kathleen (44:06): All right. I will put the links to all of those places in the show notes. So make sure you head over there to check it out. And as always, if you're listening and you liked what you heard, or you learned something new, head to Apple podcasts or the platform of your choice and leave the podcast, preferably a five star review because that's how other people find us. And if you know somebody else who's doing kick ass, inbound marketing work, tweet me @workmommywork, because I would love to interview them. Thank you so much, Jay. This was a lot of fun.

Jay (44:36): Yeah. Thank you, Kathleen. This was great.

 

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