Messaging That Builds Trust - Why Do Most Companies Get This Wrong? [Endless Customers Podcast Ep. 100]

This transcript has been generated by AI and not checked for accuracy.

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:06:01

Tom DiScipio

Contrary to popular understanding and belief, your company's messaging, your point of view, your IP, the way that you think is not your website copy. It is not your blog article content. And here's why.

 

00:00:24:10 - 00:00:33:06

Alex Winter

Welcome back to Endless Customers. I'm your host, Alex Winter, and today we are joined by Tom Scipio, who's a managing partner. And what else do you do here at impact?

 

00:00:33:06 - 00:00:34:21

Tom DiScipio

Everything a little bit of. Every little bit.

 

00:00:34:21 - 00:00:36:01

Alex Winter

Everything, right. Yeah.

 

00:00:36:01 - 00:00:37:01

Tom DiScipio

I dabble here and there.

 

00:00:37:01 - 00:00:37:18

Alex Winter

Yeah. Great

 

00:00:37:18 - 00:00:39:13

Alex Winter

to see you. Thanks for being back on the show. Yeah.

 

00:00:39:13 - 00:00:41:21

Tom DiScipio

Of course, of course. I love being at the table, you know that?

 

00:00:41:21 - 00:01:03:02

Alex Winter

Yes. We love having you at the table. You always provide great insights. Your episodes always crush it. So let's get right into it. Let's talk about the topic for today. What does clear messaging actually mean? I think a lot of people talk about this and they still don't get it right. So why does it matter so much for companies and why should they really focus on clear messaging?

 

00:01:03:02 - 00:01:04:21

Tom DiScipio

Yeah, we're going to go into this black box today.

 

00:01:05:02 - 00:01:06:06

Alex Winter

Yes. We are. Yeah.

 

00:01:06:07 - 00:01:11:13

Tom DiScipio

Clear messaging right next to sales enablement, whatever that means.

 

00:01:11:15 - 00:01:12:11

Alex Winter

Synergy.

 

00:01:12:11 - 00:01:34:23

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. Synergy. So, I think I think a lot of folks have their own definition of what clear messaging looks like. But for me it's it's very specific. It's the crossroads between two different frameworks that I've always leaned into and follow, the first of which is Donald Miller Story Brand, which we've talked about a lot, I think, on the podcast and just generally through all of our content.

 

00:01:34:23 - 00:01:36:20

Alex Winter

Yeah, we love Donald Miller, which.

 

00:01:36:20 - 00:02:06:19

Tom DiScipio

Is which is really about story and narration and making the customer your hero. Yeah. The other piece of it, that I like to have there as a structure for all of this, is Pep Logia, who is the founder of CXL and Spyro and Winter. Built a messaging framework called the B2B Messaging Framework, which creates a structure for how people want to consume information and what needs to be a part of that information.

 

00:02:06:21 - 00:02:26:19

Tom DiScipio

And so when I say crossroads of those two things, it's clear messaging for me is creating the right structure and flow for that information, while also including story and narration, which is how humans have passed things along over the years and how they invest, absorb information. Yeah. Through that. And so.

 

00:02:26:19 - 00:02:33:00

Alex Winter

It's it's like a mix of being direct. And then also the psychology behind, like how you speak to your preferred audience.

 

00:02:33:00 - 00:02:49:22

Tom DiScipio

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, clear messaging when, when it happens, you create resonance with the people that are reading this messaging. Right. Resonance and understanding and validation.

 

00:02:50:00 - 00:03:12:09

Alex Winter

Nice. So impact has made a really big shift from They Ask You Answer, which is an excellent book by Marcus Sheridan and a very nice framework for a lot of businesses. It's helped a lot of companies out there, but we've shifted more towards this endless customers model. Can you talk a little bit about clear messaging and how we went from they asked Mansour to enlist customers in that sort of evolution?

 

00:03:12:11 - 00:03:38:22

Tom DiScipio

Yeah, I think the the biggest thing there and the biggest thing that's changed over the course of that time is we all know it. It's AI. Right? And so prior to AI, we had two audiences. We were serving with our messaging. We had our end user or our ideal fit customers, one group. And we had the Google overlords as the other group.

 

00:03:39:00 - 00:04:01:21

Tom DiScipio

Well now yeah, now we've added this AI overlord as a third bucket of our third audience that we have to address with our messaging and content. Yeah. And so when we think about in my mind at least the biggest shift from they ask you answer to in this customers is how do we now position our messaging and our content?

 

00:04:01:23 - 00:04:32:01

Tom DiScipio

By the way, our two different things, which is we probably talk about that in a second. Yes. How do you position it to address these three major audiences versus this two and the, the strategies aren't necessarily all that different and the principles aren't all that different. It's just something you have to understand is now very real. And there are things that will go into it above and beyond what we've always been doing with they ask you, answer that, help you achieve that third bucket of AI.

 

00:04:32:01 - 00:04:40:23

Alex Winter

I'm curious to let's talk about the difference between messaging and copy and what that really means as far as like written word versus, I guess, positioning. Am I saying that right?

 

00:04:40:23 - 00:05:10:05

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. I wish I was smart enough to come up with this myself. But this again is from Pep larger, messaging is not equal to content. And I think some businesses get this wrong where it's like we're writing stuff and that stuff is our messaging. Well, no, your messaging is actually your point of view, and it's the things you want your customers to understand about you and about the things that you do.

 

00:05:10:07 - 00:05:42:06

Tom DiScipio

And it's also your IP. Right. So intellectual property, it's the things that you've developed and only you've developed that you're sharing with the world. Again, to align with your point of view, on why you do what you do and what you believe content is, is the expression of all of that. So with this underlying framework of like take impact, for example, we believe that all your marketing should be done in-house on the digital side, content writing, videography, that's a point of view and that's part of our messaging.

 

00:05:42:08 - 00:05:50:08

Tom DiScipio

And all of our content supports that messaging and is constantly tweaked using that messaging framework in the middle.

 

00:05:50:12 - 00:06:13:11

Alex Winter

Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. You worked, on the sales side of the equation for a good bit. You've interface with a lot of potential clients and with a lot of actual clients. How does that play out when we talk about messaging? As far as like can have you seen people where like the messaging that they have has gotten in their way, almost like their IP or the way they position themselves is, is different than their messaging or like it doesn't match up.

 

00:06:13:11 - 00:06:16:15

Alex Winter

And because of that, it's like hindering their ability to grow or to scale.

 

00:06:16:17 - 00:06:37:19

Tom DiScipio

Yeah, I've seen that a lot. And and in many times it's it's it's hard because when you're in the thick of business and you're, you're running your business, it's hard to sort of stop and create this messaging framework and foundation. And that's one of the other wonderful things about Story Brand is you build what's called your brand script.

 

00:06:37:21 - 00:06:56:03

Tom DiScipio

And that's that point in time where you stop and you document it all. The problem in the world that you solve, who you solve for and how you do it and what you believe. And again, your point of view and many companies sort of skip that step and they're like, we need a website or we need to update our website.

 

00:06:56:04 - 00:07:13:22

Tom DiScipio

Well, let's let's fill in our website based on everything we've learned about all the other websites that we've seen right? So if you're in the roofing industry, for example, if you've seen other roofing companies, they're like, oh, is a free estimate button. I put the free estimate button on my website, or it'll say like, number one roofer in Michigan.

 

00:07:14:00 - 00:07:36:08

Tom DiScipio

Oh, I'll be number one roofer in Connecticut, right. It's it's based on what we've seen. And it doesn't companies don't necessarily take that step back and say, okay, who are we in? Which particular customer are we actually trying to solve for? And when we think about the fact that we sell roofing, well, what is it that we're actually selling?

 

00:07:36:10 - 00:07:56:22

Tom DiScipio

Oh, it's peace of mind. Nobody likes having roofing problems, right? That's the problem in the world that, you know, we solve as roofers. Yeah. And this is all coming to me because, one of our good friends and clients over at Linter Roofing, that's part of their message on their website, and it's absolutely stellar.

 

00:07:57:00 - 00:08:13:00

Alex Winter

Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And I think that's why, Story Brand resonated with me so much is because I think you're right. People tend to do it backwards. You know, they're like, oh, it's Tom and Alex Roofing, and we're the number one roofers in Connecticut. And it sounds great. And it seems like the go to thing to do because it's just like almost overlooked.

 

00:08:13:02 - 00:08:28:22

Alex Winter

But you have to really think about who you're trying to talk to and how you want to talk to them first. It's almost like thinking flipping the switch and thinking like the opposite way. So it's really less about Alex and Tom in our business and way more about helping these customers. Helping people are having issues with the roofing and peace of mind.

 

00:08:28:22 - 00:08:30:18

Alex Winter

I love that you just said that peace of mind.

 

00:08:30:20 - 00:08:55:06

Tom DiScipio

And I think, I think some companies get caught up in the we have to appease the Google overlords and we have to appease the search engine. Like we know Google's indexing our site. So let's be super meticulous about these SEO keywords that we put on here. And yeah, I, you know, sound a little bit more corporate and technical and well, we have to understand is that Google's a lot smarter than we think.

 

00:08:55:10 - 00:09:14:17

Tom DiScipio

Like, these aren't just old school spider bots that are looking for words on your page. Yeah, they're trying to solve for the human, which means we need to solve for the human first. And that means that means we need to write in a way, in message, in a way that humans understand at first and that the bots will understand.

 

00:09:14:23 - 00:09:31:19

Alex Winter

Yeah, that's a really good point. I think people forget that, too. I you just saying that reminded me to I think sometimes I get caught up in the Google like corporate huge monstrosity of a business that's just trying to make money. And I forget that at their core, all their tech is really trying to, at best serve people that are searching and using their search engines.

 

00:09:31:19 - 00:09:33:20

Alex Winter

It's less about the companies and more about their.

 

00:09:33:20 - 00:09:40:02

Tom DiScipio

Users to make sense of the web. That's right. Right. Yeah. I'm get that answer as fast as possible to a human. Yeah.

 

00:09:40:02 - 00:09:46:07

Alex Winter

that's a great example. What else do people like. What else have you seen where people maybe did this wrong or didn't quite get it right.

 

00:09:46:09 - 00:10:09:03

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. These are super tactical things. That hopefully you can hear this and sort of go back to your website and look at it and go, oh yeah, we're a little guilty of this and we can fix it right away. So the first thing is, if I look at a company's website and I see lots of ways and hours, so we are this we do that.

 

00:10:09:05 - 00:10:11:18

Tom DiScipio

We're the best. We the best. Yeah. Be the best.

 

00:10:11:18 - 00:10:13:20

Alex Winter

If you're DJ colluding, you're doing it wrong.

 

00:10:14:01 - 00:10:44:13

Tom DiScipio

That's right. Our our services, our company, our people. Yeah. It's very, in the nicest way, self-centered. It's about you. And frankly, most buyers are probably not going to care about that until you've explicitly stated that you can help solve their problem. That is when buyers become okay, I understand this organization can solve my problem. Who are they?

 

00:10:44:15 - 00:11:07:09

Tom DiScipio

It's not to say you can't use the weeks and hours anywhere on your site. You should. Right? You should connects the problem with with yourself. But a lot of times these businesses rely so heavily on it, and they don't realize that in that moment they're not making the customer the hero. And that's the core principle of story brand is let's make sure the customer is the hero.

 

00:11:07:09 - 00:11:08:08

Tom DiScipio

Yeah.

 

00:11:08:10 - 00:11:24:07

Alex Winter

It's also a big part of endless customers as well. If you if you read the book and you know it and I know you do, and I know you do, and I did, but yeah, I've read it a few times, back to front. But it's one of those things where we talk a lot about putting the customer first and thinking about the customer first and not using.

 

00:11:24:11 - 00:11:42:11

Alex Winter

We, me, us language and really trying to flip the switch on and make it about them and solving problems first and helping them get. If you think about it, if you're searching online for something, you're most likely have a problem or an issue or something that you need to solve for. And that's that's the bottom line. And if you're not giving people what they want, they're going to go somewhere else to get it.

 

00:11:42:13 - 00:12:02:05

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. Yeah. And so a simple tactic there is like try to figure out ways to turn those weeks and hours into you and yours nice. Like, hey, you deserve again going back to to Linda Roofing, you deserve a roof and company that cares or that's going to solve your problems, right? Yeah. Now the buyers like yeah, I do.

 

00:12:02:06 - 00:12:19:13

Alex Winter

Yeah, it's a good point. It's got me thinking, like, you should just basically take all your copy on your website for everyone out there watching and listening and copy and paste it into a Google doc and then command F and try to find anything that says we or me or us or our and see if you can switch it up a little bit and it might make a serious impact.

 

00:12:19:13 - 00:12:46:18

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. So one other major thing I see is that companies start to spew about like, product features or service features or their solution. Yeah. Before they educate the user on exact what it is that they do. And that sounds like such a simple thing, but you've got five seconds, maybe less, to capture somebody's attention. Who's come to your homepage, right.

 

00:12:46:20 - 00:13:04:22

Tom DiScipio

It's it's not the time to use marketing fluffy content. That sounds really nice. It's the time to be insanely, clear and specific about what that actually is.

 

00:13:05:00 - 00:13:17:14

Alex Winter

Yeah, that makes sense. Really. The the fluff in the marketing stuff should be everything that you're using to drive people to your site. But then once you get to the side, that should be where it's direct and clear and concise. Yeah. That makes that makes a ton of sense to me.

 

00:13:17:17 - 00:13:33:10

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. And so maybe less of the fluff and more of like, generating that excitement and that awareness. And then once somebody gets to your home base, which is your website, it's like, I know exactly what this company does. Yeah, that's what I need.

 

00:13:33:12 - 00:13:55:12

Alex Winter

That's the key. You need to have that moment. And I think to we've experienced this when we work through our website and we, we constantly you especially are constantly scrutinizing and analyzing and trying to optimize our website. And and you just recently went through this, but it's important to take a step back and go like pretend like you don't know anything about this company and you're seeing it for the first time.

 

00:13:55:12 - 00:14:12:22

Alex Winter

What do you need to know? What's the easiest and most direct way to say this thing? So that people can get it? And it makes sense because I think sometimes we get we get so entrenched in what we do that it gets too technical and we get too like focused on all these words and wordsmithing things to make it seem a certain way.

 

00:14:12:22 - 00:14:16:01

Alex Winter

And it, it almost it almost as the opposite effect that we want it to.

 

00:14:16:03 - 00:14:42:14

Tom DiScipio

Yes, that's exactly right. And you're also right in that, I've made this mistake several times with our website, and we're still constantly tweaking it. But if, if, if you all have been to our website any time before the last couple of months, you would have seen on our homepage right at the top, helping businesses thrive in any economy sounds really good, and it's what we do.

 

00:14:42:16 - 00:15:05:03

Tom DiScipio

But it's not clear as to exactly what we do and how we help. Yeah. And so when we think about our point of view, it impacts, which is helping companies take marketing in-house and create ownership over their growth. That's why we've moved to this new initial headline of take control of your company's growth. That's exactly what you should do.

 

00:15:05:05 - 00:15:24:06

Tom DiScipio

And it doesn't say we help you take control of your company's growth. It's saying it to you. Right. And so directly under that, we have a very clear statement of, you know, we help companies generate, more customers from their website content and sales activities through coaching and training. Right, right. Yeah.

 

00:15:24:08 - 00:15:43:01

Alex Winter

Very, very straightforward. I had to bring that up because I love I love the evolution and where where we've taken it. And I think you did an excellent job with that. And I think it just goes to show you exactly what we're talking about and how important it is. Yeah, yeah. All right. So what other are there any other problems that you see that happen or any other experiences you've seen where people didn't quite get this right.

 

00:15:43:03 - 00:16:02:06

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. It's the list is just the list goes on. Guys, if you could see me look at my screen here, I'm not going to go through all, the but one other one other one. I will say that, you know, Marcus talks a lot about from stage, and within the book as well, is weaving in this idea of storytelling and narration.

 

00:16:02:08 - 00:16:28:18

Tom DiScipio

And now this goes beyond the homepage of your website. This is where you look at your blog articles and your service pages. And it's easy for an eye, but you could ask it to write you a couple paragraphs about, something you want to teach your customers. You can use roofing example. We might say, and go to ChatGPT and say, help me write an article about how much, a roof costs in whatever state.

 

00:16:28:19 - 00:16:54:01

Tom DiScipio

But the idea of weaving in storytelling and narration into that and personal experiences is that you're doing things that the I can't actually do. And so you're creating this level of differentiation and personalization and the ability for the user. Yeah. And that's all part of your messaging, because whatever stories you're telling should again tie back to your point of view, and your IP.

 

00:16:54:03 - 00:16:55:22

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. Yeah, I'll stop there.

 

00:16:55:22 - 00:17:16:17

Alex Winter

Well, and I might be, I might be biased because I, I come out of filmmaking and telling stories and I've always been passionate about that. But I think that's something that connects us all. And you said that earlier that like from the beginning of time, history has been passed on through storytelling. So if you can tell a compelling story that people can connect with and that people can relate to, it's super powerful.

 

00:17:16:18 - 00:17:20:04

Alex Winter

That's probably the most powerful tool that you have in your in your toolbox.

 

00:17:20:04 - 00:17:32:14

Tom DiScipio

Yes. And and so long as it's connected to this layer of clarity and structure, which can guide the user between these, these two things of story and, and clarity. Nice, nice.

 

00:17:32:16 - 00:17:50:12

Alex Winter

So we talked about what happens when people miss the mark with this type of clarity and making sure your messaging is on point, what happens when people do get it right and what what does it do for businesses when they take the time to hash this out, get their messaging very clear and direct? And then what? What are the results like?

 

00:17:50:16 - 00:17:52:17

Alex Winter

What do you typically see happen?

 

00:17:52:19 - 00:18:16:16

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. There's a number of things that happen. And the key thing I want to start with here is that when you document this type of stuff like a brand scripts and, and you have, this level of understanding around what your point of view is and your messaging framework, essentially for your business, it becomes to steal some of Marcus's words here.

 

00:18:16:16 - 00:18:36:05

Tom DiScipio

It becomes shared doctrine. So, so the way that I would talk about impact in our services, ideally is the same way that you would is the same way that Austin would behind this camera right here. And we've you know, we develop we look at our home page and say, yep, that's who we are. And now we communicate that way publicly.

 

00:18:36:07 - 00:18:39:10

Tom DiScipio

And you've created this shared doctrine. Yeah.

 

00:18:39:12 - 00:18:40:23

Alex Winter

It does make sense. And it

 

00:18:40:23 - 00:18:52:16

Alex Winter

is important because I feel like we do a lot of events and we do a lot of networking and things in the community, and I feel like it would be disjointed if you were having a conversation ten feet away from me with somebody, and

 

00:18:52:16 - 00:19:05:07

Alex Winter

talking about our company, or we're talking about our products and services. And I'm saying it in a completely different way than you're saying it. And to me, to me, that just doesn't seem like, a company that would be buttoned up. And that's why this is so important to try to get in.

 

00:19:05:08 - 00:19:13:06

Alex Winter

It doesn't have to be a script that we like our robots reading it word for word. But like there should be very key points that are consistent across that messaging.

 

00:19:13:06 - 00:19:24:17

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. Yeah. Well, here's the other thing too is we're talking a lot about messaging for customers. But guess what? Your employees can be confused if your messaging is not clear that.

 

00:19:24:20 - 00:19:26:13

Alex Winter

So internally with your team okay.

 

00:19:26:13 - 00:19:26:23

Tom DiScipio

Your team.

 

00:19:26:23 - 00:19:27:17

Alex Winter

That's a good point.

 

00:19:27:17 - 00:19:50:22

Tom DiScipio

Because it it negates everything. We just talked about the shared doctrine. And you have this situation where a salesperson might be sitting at their desk and they get this question from a buyer like, hey, what is you know, what do you guys do? And maybe they freeze. Maybe they say the wrong thing, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's not as compelling to the person because they haven't stated it in a way that makes it so compelling.

 

00:19:51:00 - 00:19:54:18

Tom DiScipio

So and I can tell you again like hey.

 

00:19:54:18 - 00:20:06:23

Alex Winter

we we have had this problem at impact in the past, but luckily we have we have a book that we can apply in the entire organization around the key set of principles and the messaging framework and all of that. But it wasn't always that way.

 

00:20:07:01 - 00:20:09:05

Tom DiScipio

And so it's an evolution and it takes time.

 

00:20:09:08 - 00:20:18:03

Alex Winter

It's evolution. It takes time. And just remember that when you're creating clarity for your customers, you're creating clarity for your employees. Yeah. That same time.

 

00:20:18:05 - 00:20:33:07

Tom DiScipio

Yeah that makes sense. Now we we talked about this too. And it goes back to the storytelling piece. But the reason why people connect to those things, in my opinion, and in my sales experience, is because people make buying decisions based off of emotions, not based on logic. Obviously, there's some logic in it. You.

 

00:20:33:07 - 00:20:35:13

Tom DiScipio

have to make you have to think about what you want to do

 

00:20:35:13 - 00:20:50:12

Alex Winter

To make sure that is the right decision. But usually when I buy things, it's because I love it and I want it and I have to have it. And sometimes logic, especially for guitars in certain purchases. Oh boy. And watches, the logic goes out the window and it's all hard and it's all emotion. Just because there's like a passion there.

 

00:20:50:12 - 00:20:55:16

Alex Winter

So can we talk a little bit too, about how clear messaging can help connect on that emotional love? It.

 

00:20:55:21 - 00:21:17:10

Tom DiScipio

You just keyed in on it. I mean, one of the points I had here in my notes was you essentially validate the feelings and emotions of your of your buyer by by stating your point of view. Because if you've done it right and you've been honest and transparent and open, they're going to say, yeah, me too, or yeah, I believe that, it's interesting.

 

00:21:17:10 - 00:21:41:08

Tom DiScipio

I was on a call yesterday with a prospect and, he had recently read the book, and when we were talking on the phone, he was like, you know, I feel like I've been thinking that way for 30 years. And finally, I'm reading a book and it's saying what I'm feeling. That's the same level of clarity and connection and validation that you want to use through your website, which is essentially your your initial vehicle of communication.

 

00:21:41:10 - 00:21:45:10

Alex Winter

Yeah. And who doesn't like feeling validated? Yeah, that's a great feeling. Yeah.

 

00:21:45:10 - 00:21:50:08

Tom DiScipio

You want to work with people who believe that the same things that you believe totally.

 

00:21:50:10 - 00:21:57:16

Alex Winter

Especially after 30 years. He probably. But he was on on Lonely Island like he was crazy or something. And then just to have it all come together like that must.

 

00:21:57:16 - 00:22:18:14

Tom DiScipio

Have been a great moment. Yeah, yeah. It was. And here's the, the specific example. He was saying that, when prospects would reach out to him and ask for estimates, he would sit down with them and show them every single line item of that estimate and actually show them how much profit he was making on the job.

 

00:22:18:16 - 00:22:38:16

Tom DiScipio

Just an insane level of transparency and care to say, like, I'm not here to get rich. I'm here to build a business. These are my costs. You can either choose to go with me. I'm a little more expensive, but like, it's just just that layer of thinking and clarity where he connected with with the message of they ask, you answer right away.

 

00:22:38:16 - 00:22:38:23

Tom DiScipio

That's.

 

00:22:38:23 - 00:22:49:08

Alex Winter

I'd never really heard that before. People that are like, it's one thing to show pricing and to be transparent about it, but then to show your actual like what profit you're going to make. A lot of margins are that's

 

00:22:49:10 - 00:22:55:00

Tom DiScipio

Yeah, it's incredible. And hey, it's probably not right for every business, but you're serving well for a long time, I guess.

 

00:22:55:01 - 00:23:03:09

Alex Winter

Yeah. So do you have any other examples or like have you have any stories you can share about messaging once people get this right, what it does for their business?

 

00:23:03:11 - 00:23:29:09

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. I think, ultimately, you know, more broadly, when you, when you have that connection with a potential buyer, in most cases, they're going to become a better customer for you because they've already assimilated with your beliefs and your point of view. There's no convincing, there's no persuasion. You're messaging has done well to attract the right type of buyer.

 

00:23:29:11 - 00:23:43:23

Tom DiScipio

And so typically that means better customers, more retention, less fighting with them, maybe more referrals. I mean, it just has this cascading effect. Yeah. From employee to customer generation.

 

00:23:43:23 - 00:24:03:02

Alex Winter

Yeah. That's a really interesting point because we've talked about this a lot in the show where getting the right leads, sometimes having less leads, but they're the right ones that are the most qualified, is better than having a pipeline full of people that you're going to have to strong arm and over sell and then probably have problems with them down the road as they become clients because they're not really a good fit.

 

00:24:03:02 - 00:24:21:21

Alex Winter

And it's like, what was that time and energy worth, just taking the time to do what we're talking about to attract the right people? Yeah, exactly. Game changer. Exactly. Well, so for someone who's listening or who's watching and thinks their messaging might need a little work. So if you're out there right now, you're going like you need to take a look at this.

 

00:24:21:21 - 00:24:32:02

Alex Winter

I need to figure this out. Where should they start? What what's some good advice or some, like, what's the jumping off point for them to at least start to think about this and Annapolis as they move forward?

 

00:24:32:04 - 00:24:49:19

Tom DiScipio

Two key places to start and their resources. And, they're very easy to get through. Number one, read Story Brand by Donald Miller. That'll clarify a whole bunch of stuff we talked about today. And obviously expand on that more and talk about the hero's journey, your customer's journey through their brand with you.

 

00:24:49:21 - 00:24:58:03

Alex Winter

Had to go to because he really walks you through. Like, it's not just theory. It's also like, and here's how, here's the step by step process to run through this for your business or your audience.

 

00:24:58:03 - 00:25:32:08

Tom DiScipio

Yeah, it just makes so much sense. Yeah. And it's a good read. So check out that book. The second thing I would say is follow pep larger. Who again, owner of Castle, Winter and another company called Spiro. He has not only is he fun to follow because he's just like a straightforward guy, but his B2B messaging framework and what I love most about it is it's based on tons of data that he's sort of reversed, analyzed, and built this framework.

 

00:25:32:10 - 00:25:45:10

Tom DiScipio

And I want to make sure I get it right. And the framework is, five steps clarity, relevance, value, differentiation and consideration. That is the order in which most.

 

00:25:45:12 - 00:25:46:16

Alex Winter

B2B.

 

00:25:46:18 - 00:26:13:13

Tom DiScipio

Buyers are going to be looking for in their content. So, if you go to winter w y intercom, he actually has a B2B messaging course on there. That's I think it's maybe an hour or so, but it'll get you up to speed. And now you have these two tools again, which is where I live, kind of right in the middle of those two things and using bits and pieces from each one of them.

 

00:26:13:18 - 00:26:30:00

Alex Winter

Now that's cool. I think that's good advice, too, only because we I feel like it's easier with B2C, or at least that's the perception, because when we talk to B2B businesses, they're like, oh, what worse would be to see doesn't work with B2B. And we're still, you know, a handshake and they do things maybe a little bit differently.

 

00:26:30:02 - 00:26:41:18

Alex Winter

And I don't know if that necessarily changes the equation with what we're talking about right now. I think if anything, the people that are in B2B that can leverage this right now are going to be a step ahead of their competition and people in the space.

 

00:26:41:20 - 00:27:05:07

Tom DiScipio

And that's an interesting point to, you know, a lot of what Endless customers is, is a timeless set of principles that work across the board for messaging, specifically when when you look at these two groups and we talked about emotional buying responses, B2B, you're still selling to a human. But at the same time, a lot of times their job is on the line.

 

00:27:05:07 - 00:27:27:00

Tom DiScipio

Right? Like even if you're a CEO making a decision and you're buying something, you want to make sure that decision doesn't have a negative effect on your business or your employees or your customers or whatever, where the that's where the logic and emotion can, you know, coming together with B2C buyers, a lot of times it's about identification. Identify with the product that I'm buying.

 

00:27:27:00 - 00:27:46:09

Tom DiScipio

Like we'll take the guitar examples, the reasons why we buy Fenders and Gibsons and maybe spend a little bit too much money is we want that to be part of our identity. And so maybe the emotional component takes over a little bit more. So that's what I love about the B2B messaging framework that Pep has put together.

 

00:27:46:11 - 00:27:51:22

Tom DiScipio

Pep is Pep, by the way. And down on the lower story written.

 

00:27:51:22 - 00:28:04:16

Alex Winter

How does this come into play with AI and with artificial intelligence? That is becoming predominantly the driving factor of of where we are now and certainly into the future, as we move forward. So how does that play into all this?

 

00:28:04:22 - 00:28:31:13

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. When when they ask you answer was originally released, you know, ten plus years ago, we didn't necessarily have this scenario. And Marcus always talks about, like, he could sit at his kitchen table and write a few blog articles and rank really well in search. But now we've got, dozens of AI tools that generate content from simple prompts.

 

00:28:31:15 - 00:28:43:06

Tom DiScipio

And the rate at which content is being produced is so much higher. And it's just creating more noise. It's just creating more noise.

 

00:28:43:08 - 00:29:00:08

Alex Winter

So I think at the time I just have to interject and yeah, the reason why I worked for Marcus back when he was doing the River pools piece, I was up all night blogging and started ranking was because that was that was a bleeding edge of when blogging was really becoming a thing, and Google and SEO and all that was really at its peak, and it worked out so well for him.

 

00:29:00:13 - 00:29:12:03

Alex Winter

And now there's this major shift that's happening where you can still you can still stand out, even though that that might be oversaturated. But you have to figure out ways to do that, and you have to use AI to help you do that.

 

00:29:12:07 - 00:29:42:00

Tom DiScipio

And you have to hope that your buyer is willing to scroll past the AI generated result, scroll past the Reddit results, scroll past the shopping results in YouTube videos to eventually find you. And so that brings in the importance of, writing things that AI tools like ChatGPT can surface and recommend what you're putting out there and for.

 

00:29:42:02 - 00:30:10:06

Tom DiScipio

And again, these these tools are not dumb. They're they're not just looking for specific words. They understand what their searchers are trying to find. And so that's where this idea of messaging and point of view and storytelling in IP becomes evermore important at this point where you have to start infusing that into your content. Otherwise people are going to look at your content and say, yeah, I'm reading the same thing over here.

 

00:30:10:08 - 00:30:15:17

Tom DiScipio

There's nothing there's nothing here that's that's keeping me or engaging me or building more trust. Ultimately.

 

00:30:15:17 - 00:30:16:18

Alex Winter

Yeah, absolutely.

 

00:30:16:18 - 00:30:35:21

Alex Winter

there seems to be, like this oversaturation in the marketplace. Right. And it's becoming harder and harder to stand out. And Marcus talks about this a lot, like whenever I see I'm like envisioning him on stage right now, talking about how to disrupt your industry, how to disrupt, you know, your marketplace. And I feel like it's becoming harder to do that.

 

00:30:35:21 - 00:30:47:07

Alex Winter

So, like going back to the messaging piece, how do you they're coming full circle here. How do you find a way to position yourself where you can disrupt and you can stand out from all this AI tech and all the noise?

 

00:30:47:12 - 00:31:11:04

Tom DiScipio

Yeah. There's, it's funny, we actually do an exercise around this at Impact Live, which happens twice a year. The next one is on August 18th to the 20th in Hartford, Connecticut. Hope to see you all there. I'll do the plug for you. That's perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's an exercise in the workbook that Marcus runs us through, and it's a number of prompts that we ask that help to get you thinking this way.

 

00:31:11:05 - 00:31:36:08

Tom DiScipio

In leaning more towards disruptive style content, which is going to move you to the top of search is, is going to get you recommended in ways and is going to be more shareable. And I think I don't know the question exactly, but but the the general basis of the question is, what's one thing in your industry that frustrates you that nobody's solved yet?

 

00:31:36:10 - 00:31:38:11

Tom DiScipio

No one's talking or that nobody's talking about? Yeah.

 

00:31:38:11 - 00:31:39:12

Alex Winter

Good point. I love that.

 

00:31:39:12 - 00:31:57:09

Tom DiScipio

And and pay for impact in our industry. It's this idea that, digital marketing and content writing should be outsourced. And we're on the complete opposite end of that of like, no, bring it in-house. The best results are with your team and it creates enterprise value for your business.

 

00:31:58:01 - 00:32:07:10

Tom DiScipio

So there's a number of prompts and questions like that that you can use to help you generate ideas that are going to make you stand out.

 

00:32:07:12 - 00:32:23:14

Alex Winter

Love that, love that. This has been a great conversation. I love having you on the show. I feel like you talk to you for like another hour about this stuff. Yeah, we should wrap up. Okay, so we get favorite part of the show. What's the one thing? What's it for? Everybody out there watching them listening. What should they take away from this conversation?

 

00:32:23:16 - 00:32:26:23

Alex Winter

What should they go get after right after watching this or listening to this?

 

00:32:27:00 - 00:33:00:04

Tom DiScipio

Yeah, I think the one thing here is that it's incredibly hard to just sit down at your computer and write website copy or blog article copy or an ad or anything for your organization. If you haven't yet established what your messaging is for your business, what you believe, what your point of view is, what your intellectual property is, and finding a way to clearly communicate that to your audience.

 

00:33:00:08 - 00:33:00:20

Alex Winter

Yeah.

 

00:33:00:22 - 00:33:06:04

Tom DiScipio

And have it shareable across the organization. That's the area to start.

 

00:33:06:06 - 00:33:15:11

Alex Winter

Well-said. Yeah. All right everybody, you know what to do. So get after it. And Tom, thank you so much for being on the show. We really appreciate your time there. Of course. All right. For everyone out there watching and listening,

 

00:33:15:11 - 00:33:20:09

Alex Winter

you know what it is this is endless customers. I'm your host, Alex Winter. We'll catch you on the next episode.