Emotional Intelligence and the Secret to Leading with Endless Customers [Endless Customers Podcast Ep. 112]

This transcript has been generated by AI and not checked for accuracy. 

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Thomas Ahern
Hey, am I okay?

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Thomas Ahern
mean, great business leaders

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Thomas Ahern
think about that a lot.

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Thomas Ahern
It's almost like taking an inward journey.

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Thomas Ahern
But do I have the courage,

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Thomas Ahern
the resilience and the grit

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Thomas Ahern
to dig deeper?

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Thomas Ahern
Well, a

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Thomas Ahern
good business coach can really help you with that.

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Bob Ruffolo
You're listening to The Endless Customers podcasts brought to you by the team at impact!

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Bob Ruffolo
Ellis customers is the proven system to become the most known and trusted brand in your market.

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Bob Ruffolo
you want to start to learn the principles of endless customers and how you can implement them in your business, pick up a copy of Endless Customers, a national bestseller. Wherever books are sold.

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Bob Ruffolo
Ready to start implementing endless customers in your business? Talk to impact about how our coaching program can help you implement endless customers to success.

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Bob Ruffolo
And now onto the show. Here's your host Alex

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Alex Winter
What do world class athletes, top CEOs and high performing marketing teams all have in common?

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Alex Winter
They work with coaches.

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Alex Winter
Today, we're talking to Thomas Ahern, executive coach at impact, about the role emotional intelligence plays in real business success

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Alex Winter
and why coaching is often the difference between teams that talk about change

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Alex Winter
and teams that make it happen.

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Alex Winter
If you're serious about implementing the endless customer system,

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Alex Winter
this is the part no one talks about

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Alex Winter
the mindset work,

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Alex Winter
reflection,

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Alex Winter
and the leadership growth required to actually make it

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Alex Winter
Thomas,

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Alex Winter
welcome to the show.

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Thomas Ahern
Hey Alex.

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Thomas Ahern
Good to see you, buddy. How's it going?

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Alex Winter
It's going well. It's going really well. How about you? How's. How's everything?

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Thomas Ahern
I'm doing well, glad to be here. Things have settled down from my move, so we're ready to go.

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Alex Winter
Nice. Congratulations on the move. And also, this your first time on the show?

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Thomas Ahern
I know, and I've seen the studio several times. I've been jonesing to get in and, have the opportunity to have some conversation with you because you do such a great job in terms of the guests that you have. I

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Thomas Ahern
see that last one on answer rank. Holy smokes. That was really good with Patrick.

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Alex Winter
Oh, wow. Thank you. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. It's it's, it's a team effort over here, for sure,

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Alex Winter
we've been chosen to have you on the show, so I think the feeling's mutual because you have a wealth of knowledge and experience when it comes to emotional intelligence and it comes to coaching, and it also comes to running businesses.

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Alex Winter
So

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Alex Winter
can't wait to just, like, roll up our sleeves and and get into it, get our hands dirty.

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Thomas Ahern
And see what happens.

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Alex Winter
Awesome. So

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Alex Winter
can you just set the stage for people who maybe don't know who you are? A little background, and what you do here at impact, just so people can get a sense of what's up.

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Thomas Ahern
Yeah, I believe in it. I started my career as an educational psychologist, and, one of the first things I studied was, you know, Gardner's eight forms of intelligence. That is part of the conversation today. So it's kind of interesting to me that,

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Thomas Ahern
when you reached out to talk about it, it was sort of like my sweet spot.

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Thomas Ahern
It started off as an educational psychologist in, and then took a position for the summer because as an educational psychologist, you have to find a job for the summer because there are ten month contracts.

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Alex Winter
That's right.

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Thomas Ahern
So I took a job as a therapist in a private psychiatric hospital and ended up spending ten years there, not only doing therapy, but eventually starting programs and working in the community to build access and capacity for communities to support young people with social, emotional, mental health issues.

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Thomas Ahern
Ultimately moved through the process and, got to the point where I had the opportunity to become the chief marketing officer for a 14 state,

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Thomas Ahern
mental health system.

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Thomas Ahern
And our we were really trying to, change the game in terms of reducing the all time levels of anxiety, depression and suicide in the country by creating more access across the country and standardizing care and making it so that payers would pay and everybody had equal access. And,

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Thomas Ahern
access to really good quality, standards of care.

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Thomas Ahern
But then I retired. Yeah. I've been doing it for like 30, 35 years, and I retired, came back, to, Connecticut, where I raised my family and started another business with my wife around holistic,

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Thomas Ahern
sales consulting, because we believed in the connection between wellness and sales and integrating that into your strategic, perspective.

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Thomas Ahern
And because if you didn't, the research was beginning to evident that you were more likely to fail as a business if you didn't integrate wellness into the way that you were approaching the market and your sales and marketing. So but then I got a call from impact and, and Bob and, he said, hey, we love what you're doing.

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Thomas Ahern
We like to do this kind of stuff too. Why don't we have a get together to have a conversation? Which we did. And I realized that you guys were doing it

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Thomas Ahern
a little bit at scale, and it was a great to be able to partner

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Thomas Ahern
with you and to be able to spread more of the kinds of stuff we're talking about.

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Thomas Ahern
So to bring heart, to, organizations that are trying to implement endless customers was a part that, Bob really embraced. And that's what kind of brings us here together today. So,

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Thomas Ahern
in a nutshell, that's my that's my background. I've also been the, you know, senior VP of

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Thomas Ahern
sales. So I've had the opportunity to start programs and grow programs and market programs, and at the same time learn how to do it with heart and humanness

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Thomas Ahern
Because in mental health, when it comes to sales, you know, putting those two together is kind of a, feels incongruent. Right? So how do you do that? You got to do it with the heart.

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Alex Winter
got to do it with heart. Yeah. No, we definitely have a lot of alignment when it comes to the way that the company thinks and approaches sales and business and and just morality in general, that to you. And I think it was such a great match up when you were such a great

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Alex Winter
value, add to the team because you you have such a wealth of experience when it comes to emotional

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Alex Winter
intelligence that you bring into the equation.

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Alex Winter
And I think it's a mindset that leadership has here, but it's also a mindset that most of our clients that are successful with endless customers, their leadership

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Alex Winter
has a similar,

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Alex Winter
vibe as well or similar wavelength to us. So can we talk a little bit about how emotional intelligence plays into the endless customer system, and why? Why it just elevates and pushes people that are implementing it to the next level.

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Alex Winter
When it comes to being successful?

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Thomas Ahern
I think it would be good to just help our audience understand sort of well, what is emotional intelligence. And so when you have that sort of definition, the different components of it, okay, helps people to sort of understand, how it really impacts or can impact or the potential is so, you know, if you really think about it in is most simplified form as it's evolved

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Thomas Ahern
from back when I first

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Thomas Ahern
studied it, but initially would be like the difference between

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Thomas Ahern
intra intelligence

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Thomas Ahern
inter.

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Thomas Ahern
So one is like how well I understand my own moods,

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Thomas Ahern
my own feelings, my own motivations, and how well can I

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Thomas Ahern
manage those when they came up to help me make good decisions as opposed to letting that stuff, you know, rule me, if you will? Yeah. And then

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Thomas Ahern
intra would be how well can I perceive or empathize and understand how other people are feeling?

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Thomas Ahern
Can I step into their shoes? Can I really see things from their perspective? Now? You can see how the better I am at that, probably the better I am at being able to read a rule or run a meeting or

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Thomas Ahern
seeing the decisions that I'm making, how they're impacting others, right? Right. And when it comes to like things that are happening around me, the better I have access and,

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Thomas Ahern
language that identifies those feelings and I can stop and be present to

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Thomas Ahern
experience those, then I'm more likely to be able to respond in a way that's congruent with the way that I want to, or they're consistent with the core values that I ascribe to.

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Thomas Ahern
So all the when you put that stuff together, and that's a very sort of simplified version of it,

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Thomas Ahern
the data is pretty clear that you're ultimately going to make better decisions. People are going to perhaps like you more. They're going to respond to you better, you're going to run

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Thomas Ahern
things better. And so that's why the people that are implementing endless customers, when they start thinking about how this relates to endless customers, because I'm not just implementing a tactic

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Thomas Ahern
or a bolt time thing, I'm actually transforming my

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Thomas Ahern
company.

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Thomas Ahern
And people have reactions and feelings and thoughts and all kinds of stuff, fears that you have to be able to navigate. Because we're not putting on aluminum siding on the side of a house. We're actually impacting people's lives in the way that they go about their own journey of implementing their

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Thomas Ahern
role in the company.

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Thomas Ahern
Does that help?

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Alex Winter
Yeah.

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Alex Winter
there's so much to unpack there for me because

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Alex Winter
my wife says I'm very empathetic and I sometimes personally will struggle with feeling other people's emotions, so much so that it it's hard to control how it affects me.

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Alex Winter
like if someone has such a great point.

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Alex Winter
Yeah. Like so if someone's upset on my team,

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Alex Winter
it affects me and then I can't do what I need to do until they're okay and I have to help solve that. So like the I struggle with some of that. But I think everyone has their own different struggles with either self-awareness or other people's

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Alex Winter
issues. But I think to your point,

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Alex Winter
it's just fascinating to take the time to stop and and think about that and try to analyze where you stand.

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Thomas Ahern
I love your first point because when I was, you know, part of my role as a chief marketing officer, I was also responsible for admissions.

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Thomas Ahern
Okay. And so when parents were calling us with their child, who was out of control looking for help,

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Thomas Ahern
And my admissions people who I have to have empathy, but sometimes they would start having so much empathy that they would

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Thomas Ahern
start thinking about

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Thomas Ahern
the family and down the pipe down the road, like, well, what is this going to cost you?

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Thomas Ahern
And they would start to have too much empathy to the point where they were solving the problems for the family.

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Thomas Ahern
sometimes you have to sort of pull back from that. And that's having that, intra,

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Thomas Ahern
emotional intelligence to know, like, where's my boundaries? Can I set healthy boundaries? Can I not have ruinous empathy? It's called where I end up, like having too much.

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Thomas Ahern
And so I think you make a

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Thomas Ahern
good point, and it was great that your wife gives you that feedback, because that's really the only way we learn is by

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Thomas Ahern
being open to and

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Thomas Ahern
non defensive and having a growth mindset around right, accepting feedback. So

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Thomas Ahern
that's really good that she, she tells you that because and you have the courage to be able to hear it.

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Thomas Ahern
Yeah.

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Alex Winter
keep each other honest. You know we we I'm very lucky that we have that, that relationship. But I also think it's the driving force here at impact. I feel like the from the top down

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Alex Winter
accountability is a big piece. But communication is also a big piece here. And

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Alex Winter
that really helps push to have these conversations and to be

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Alex Winter
self-aware and to also be empathetic to others.

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Alex Winter
I also think one more step forward for our clients when you think about Endless customer is the system.

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Alex Winter
We're trying to be super

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Alex Winter
transparent and honest with potential customers. So it's really like breaking or disrupting

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Alex Winter
the typical norms of your industry, of trying to hide pricing or trying to do the smoke and mirrors and really being

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Alex Winter
aware of what they need, their fears, their worries, their doubts, their concerns and addressing them.

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Alex Winter
Right.

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Thomas Ahern
Yeah. And that and it's awesome that you can, you know, identify that. So as you're promoting something that's going to make them uncomfortable,

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Thomas Ahern
mean, it just happened to me, just yesterday we were on a call and a have a business, you know, business leader who's trying to make a decision

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Thomas Ahern
to adopt and list customers while at the same time they're implementing a brand new CRM system in their company.

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Thomas Ahern
And is that too much? Yeah, that's all we do. Endless customers in a CRM implementation. If you've ever been through technology implementation, you know what a nightmare those can be.

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Alex Winter
Absolutely.

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Thomas Ahern
So as he's deciding and we're almost like, well, maybe we should wait and

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Thomas Ahern
we should do this after the CRM implementation in 2026, because the reason we're doing the CRM now is because we know it's not going to do very well for the rest of the year, but in 2026 will be ready to go.

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Thomas Ahern
So I you know, I'm sitting here listening to him, I'm going, yep, that makes a lot of sense.

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Thomas Ahern
And I could see how you're not. I love your empathy and your consideration and compassion towards your staff, and realizing this might be way too much to do all

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Thomas Ahern
at once.

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Thomas Ahern
But then we paused and we thought about it for a second and I said, well, something for you to consider. You know, Dan is, boy, should we do the implementation now and do everything at once so that everybody can know that by 2026 we're going to be ready to

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Thomas Ahern
go and that stuff will be done with.

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Thomas Ahern
And now we have, you know, the structure in place that lets us relax and move forward

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Thomas Ahern
and that's kind of like where we left it. But I think it was,

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Thomas Ahern
a good perspective for, for me to see the, the business owner having that level of consideration for his staff and what this, these implementations would mean.

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Thomas Ahern
And at the same time, like

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Thomas Ahern
driving the core decision was what's

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Thomas Ahern
right for the company, what's right for our staff. And so I could see that that's the kind of business owner

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Thomas Ahern
like to work with. It probably has a really high level of employee satisfaction, and pride doesn't have a ton of turnover because

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Thomas Ahern
that is something he's turned on to and he considers and thinks

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Thomas Ahern
about.

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Thomas Ahern
Now, it's not the only thing, but it is something that makes the difference between people who are

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Thomas Ahern
living a life of sort of achievements and outcome versus living a life of significance where it transcends

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Thomas Ahern
the outcome for the business beyond that, to its impact on people in lives and all that kind of stuff.

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Alex Winter
Absolutely,

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Alex Winter
absolutely. This is a great segue to. So from an

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Alex Winter
emotional intelligence standpoint, how does coaching or having someone to keep you honest? How does that help leaders

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Alex Winter
do exactly what you're talking about? You know, implement not just the endless customer system, but be aware of their team and how to create like a rising tide lifts all boats sort of situation.

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Thomas Ahern
well, I guess I see it is more of a in a sense, it comes from a sort of a servant leadership perspective, like I as a leader,

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Thomas Ahern
want to be more collaborative, and I want it to exist for the purpose of helping the people that I'm asking to do the work, to give them the resources they need to rise

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Thomas Ahern
up and to feel like they're empowered.

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Thomas Ahern
They have the resources. They're listened. They're understood.

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Thomas Ahern
And I think that's where, you know, business business leaders who adopt a coach and can get that, critical feedback or that

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Thomas Ahern
objective observation, to support them in their development of those skills if they feel like they're lacking,

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Thomas Ahern
can make a real big difference because the evidence is pretty clear.

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Thomas Ahern
I mean, those who employ a coach, those business leaders

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Thomas Ahern
because most of them do sales training, right, everybody is training. But when you add coaching to the training,

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Thomas Ahern
there's like a 22% increase in

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Thomas Ahern
several different categories, whether they be, performance or satisfaction or,

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Thomas Ahern
productivity, you know, those kinds of metrics that most business owners are looking for

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Thomas Ahern
directly tied to

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Thomas Ahern
training and coaching being hand in hand.

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Thomas Ahern
And then it goes way beyond that. So you have those traditional metrics that sort of define business,

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Thomas Ahern
but then you have to get into the stuff like what's the value of having

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Thomas Ahern
a confidential conversation with someone who's outside the organization that can talk to me about,

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Thomas Ahern
what kind of a boss am I?

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Thomas Ahern
Or what kind of a father am I? Or how am I, you know, being perceived by

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Thomas Ahern
the organization

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Thomas Ahern
those kinds of things where I can be challenge, I can challenge a business owner, say, is this really how you want to be thinking about that? What about this? I mean, there's just so many different opportunities that within those kinds of relationships, can have such a huge impact on

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Thomas Ahern
your

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Thomas Ahern
sort of a holistic functioning versus just being tunnel vision on an outcome that's business related.

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Thomas Ahern
That's my wins in the short term. You might meet that quarterly goal right.

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Thomas Ahern
But what's the long term at what cost.

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Thomas Ahern
that's really the stuff that drives me

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Alex Winter
Yeah. Absolutely. So I grew up playing pretty competitive sports. And you were talking about like getting the tunnel vision right. And when it comes to training and coaching,

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Alex Winter
you can train and train and train in a certain stripe for sports. But you might be training

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Alex Winter
the wrong aspects and you need that outside coach to

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Alex Winter
be like, hey, I'm glad you got that done, but you also need to do X, Y, and Z and

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Alex Winter
It can change the game. So that's really important to have that perspective.

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Thomas Ahern
Well there's a researcher named Angela Duckworth who wrote a book on grit

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Thomas Ahern
And she was trying to understand like what was the foundational what is the stuff that makes the Olympic athlete win and exceed higher than everybody else?

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Thomas Ahern
And is it entirely consistent because most people would say, what?

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Thomas Ahern
Oh, you just have really

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Thomas Ahern
great natural talent,

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Thomas Ahern
Wrong. And that's not it.

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Thomas Ahern
which she did when she did all this research over the years and wrote the book on grit, she found that it was actually the term is I get it wrong all the time, but it's

00:15:19:18 - 00:15:20:01
Thomas Ahern
called,

00:15:20:01 - 00:15:27:00
Thomas Ahern
deliberate practice. And that's the difference between those that achieve. Okay. And those are when deliberate practice includes,

00:15:27:00 - 00:15:40:00
Thomas Ahern
long periods of time of practice with a coach that provides you objective feedback and then continuously presses you to create goals, gives you additional feedback so that you can continue

00:15:40:00 - 00:15:43:18
Thomas Ahern
to practice the right things because you can practice all day long.

00:15:43:18 - 00:15:52:04
Thomas Ahern
I mean, you wouldn't unless customers we that's why we coach people at one. We give them feedback based on how they're writing or based how their video is one of their best practices.

00:15:52:04 - 00:15:59:10
Thomas Ahern
So we can give them that feedback to help create awareness around the blind aspects of the stuff that they're not seen.

00:15:59:10 - 00:16:11:22
Thomas Ahern
the Johari Window construct, which I'm, you know, I've probably most of our audience is familiar with, but I've always loved that construct that, you know, what area of my Johari window is the most blind,

00:16:11:22 - 00:16:12:12
Thomas Ahern
and how do

00:16:12:12 - 00:16:13:09
Thomas Ahern
I fix that?

00:16:13:09 - 00:16:25:05
Thomas Ahern
Because the idea would be to reduce the blind aspects of my personality so that I have more fully functioning, and I get more aware of all of the different components of myself. Right? So I can be a better boss, better decision maker, etc.,

00:16:25:05 - 00:16:28:22
Alex Winter
So you coach and train a lot of companies, different industries, different facets.

00:16:28:22 - 00:16:32:18
Alex Winter
what are some common like tunnel vision moments or mindset blocks that

00:16:32:18 - 00:16:33:02
Alex Winter
you come

00:16:33:02 - 00:16:34:14
Alex Winter
across as you're as you're in

00:16:34:14 - 00:16:35:19
Alex Winter
these cars and you're working with

00:16:35:19 - 00:16:36:09
Alex Winter
companies.

00:16:36:09 - 00:16:46:00
Thomas Ahern
it's pretty fascinating work, actually. But I guess I could boil it down to the least, probably the one that for me is the biggest, usually comes back to like, fear.

00:16:46:00 - 00:16:52:14
Thomas Ahern
there's a lot of misconceptions out there, you know? Well, one, you're weak. You know, if you have a coach,

00:16:52:14 - 00:16:52:17
Thomas Ahern
know, you're

00:16:52:17 - 00:16:56:22
Thomas Ahern
supposed be able to do this stuff on your own or that nothing's really broken.

00:16:56:22 - 00:17:03:18
Thomas Ahern
So I don't really need a coach either. Or, you know, I'm just afraid to be vulnerable and open

00:17:03:18 - 00:17:05:06
Thomas Ahern
for honest

00:17:05:06 - 00:17:06:17
Thomas Ahern
feedback. And

00:17:06:17 - 00:17:24:00
Thomas Ahern
just to expand on that for a second, I mean, that's what's really interesting. And the artistry related to coaching is being able to develop that rapport and having your own really good emotional intelligence about understanding where your business owner is coming from.

00:17:24:00 - 00:17:26:06
Thomas Ahern
What's their stuff, what's their fears,

00:17:26:06 - 00:17:27:05
Thomas Ahern
what's their goals,

00:17:27:05 - 00:17:29:21
Thomas Ahern
and developing a rapport in a relationship where it becomes

00:17:29:21 - 00:17:38:07
Thomas Ahern
so much, so much trust. Is there where we can have open dialog and essentially have radical candor around so many topics

00:17:38:07 - 00:17:51:04
Thomas Ahern
that everything is on topic. Not everything is open and it's safe. And now we can look at those limiting behaviors or those limiting thoughts that are getting in the way of my ability to break through.

00:17:51:04 - 00:17:58:11
Thomas Ahern
Right. And, do things better than what if I were to do them alone? I can do them better with somebody else. It's almost like

00:17:58:11 - 00:18:00:05
Thomas Ahern
rocket fuel for your,

00:18:00:05 - 00:18:05:00
Thomas Ahern
company, for your business goals or your own personal and professional growth.

00:18:05:00 - 00:18:07:14
Thomas Ahern
But sometimes the mind just gets in the way and it takes

00:18:07:14 - 00:18:08:13
Thomas Ahern
a lot of courage.

00:18:08:19 - 00:18:12:01
Thomas Ahern
I mean, I see the same thing where you're going to implement endless customers.

00:18:12:01 - 00:18:17:07
Thomas Ahern
you're a courageous, bold leader. But it also means we have to live in it.

00:18:17:07 - 00:18:19:19
Thomas Ahern
if it doesn't live in us, it can't live through us.

00:18:20:03 - 00:18:20:23
Alex Winter
That's what I said.

00:18:20:23 - 00:18:22:17
Alex Winter
I think you're right about the fear piece to where

00:18:22:17 - 00:18:25:02
Alex Winter
We want to look good, we want to present. Well you know we don't,

00:18:25:02 - 00:18:30:13
Alex Winter
as humans don't like to acknowledge we're almost like trained from a young age to be like, oh, like that's bad.

00:18:30:13 - 00:18:33:17
Alex Winter
let's only look at the positive and the good, but the beautiful moments.

00:18:33:17 - 00:18:39:01
Alex Winter
And they'll teachable and learning moments where you really grow are in those messy moments when you fail and when

00:18:39:01 - 00:18:42:12
Alex Winter
you don't have things go quite right. And you can take a second to reflect and look at

00:18:42:12 - 00:18:47:14
Alex Winter
those pieces and really have the awareness to try to be better next time, right? Even though it's difficult,

00:18:47:14 - 00:18:49:03
Alex Winter
that's where the magic happens.

00:18:49:03 - 00:18:52:05
Thomas Ahern
That's the transformational moments that we all take with us. And,

00:18:52:05 - 00:19:01:02
Thomas Ahern
if we can establish ourselves in a relationship with a coach that can mentor us or coach us, I do differentiate the difference between,

00:19:01:02 - 00:19:03:12
Thomas Ahern
training, coaching and mentoring.

00:19:03:12 - 00:19:03:21
Thomas Ahern
You know,

00:19:03:21 - 00:19:09:00
Thomas Ahern
training or like, teaching a specific skill over a time limited period of time coaching.

00:19:09:03 - 00:19:18:23
Thomas Ahern
We're also doing a limited period of time. And, we're looking for skill development, but we also take into consideration sort of the holistic picture. Mentoring is

00:19:18:23 - 00:19:22:18
Thomas Ahern
really different because there's no time limitation to that. And we're really using our life

00:19:22:18 - 00:19:27:02
Thomas Ahern
experience and it's more about career and personal growth.

00:19:27:02 - 00:19:31:07
Thomas Ahern
a lot of times I think people don't understand what coaching even really means.

00:19:31:09 - 00:19:34:05
Thomas Ahern
And I think that's something in our sales process. We try to do that

00:19:34:05 - 00:19:41:05
Thomas Ahern
well. It's like helping, like, what are you signing up for here? And what does that really look like and what is it going to take. And sometimes that can be

00:19:41:05 - 00:19:46:21
Thomas Ahern
scary. But we lean into the scariness because real business leaders.

00:19:46:21 - 00:19:48:05
Thomas Ahern
They're not afraid of being vulnerable.

00:19:48:05 - 00:19:49:16
Thomas Ahern
They're afraid of not growing.

00:19:49:16 - 00:19:51:03
Thomas Ahern
that's what's cool. That's when

00:19:51:03 - 00:20:03:14
Thomas Ahern
you know, you've got the right people, right? Like, okay, they lean right into the endless customer commitment to success, even though if you would read it, go, Holy crap, I've got to do all this stuff. I gotta transform the culture of my organization.

00:20:03:14 - 00:20:13:21
Thomas Ahern
And the answer is, yeah. And but when those leaders say, oh my goodness, it speaks to me. And this is where I want this company to go, and I know what it's going to take

00:20:13:21 - 00:20:20:16
Thomas Ahern
now we've got a great partnership. And in a, the framework for a really great business relationship.

00:20:20:16 - 00:20:23:11
Alex Winter
Yeah, absolutely. I love what you're saying. And it's got me thinking.

00:20:23:11 - 00:20:32:06
Alex Winter
me put you on the spot a little bit? Do you have a story or an example maybe that you could share of a business leader or a company that you've been working with that maybe was struggling,

00:20:32:06 - 00:20:33:07
Alex Winter
to unlock something?

00:20:33:07 - 00:20:34:18
Alex Winter
And you helped them break through

00:20:34:18 - 00:20:35:19
Alex Winter
with coaching.

00:20:35:22 - 00:20:39:06
Thomas Ahern
Wow. Oh, God. I got one hot on my tail. Yeah,

00:20:39:06 - 00:20:46:02
Thomas Ahern
Okay, this is owner, but he's. His son. Has been with the company for 20 something years as their number one salesperson.

00:20:46:06 - 00:20:47:08
Alex Winter
Wow. That's incredible.

00:20:47:08 - 00:20:50:08
Thomas Ahern
yeah, but you can guess where this one's going.

00:20:50:08 - 00:20:54:17
Thomas Ahern
even though he's number one salesperson, there's an immense amount of opportunity.

00:20:54:17 - 00:20:56:13
Thomas Ahern
and there's a couple other people on the sales team,

00:20:56:13 - 00:20:56:19
Thomas Ahern
I was going.

00:20:56:19 - 00:20:57:14
Alex Winter
To ask, how big is the

00:20:57:14 - 00:20:58:14
Alex Winter
sales team that we're. Yeah,

00:20:58:14 - 00:20:58:15
Alex Winter
about.

00:20:58:15 - 00:20:58:19
Thomas Ahern
It's

00:20:58:19 - 00:21:04:14
Thomas Ahern
like four people on the sales team. Okay. And the CEO is acting as sales manager.

00:21:04:14 - 00:21:17:04
Thomas Ahern
Which is often the case with some of these, the smaller size organizations. And it becomes increasingly evident, even though they're doing really good work. Some self-service tools, they, you know, they've done some really great work and see some great results.

00:21:17:04 - 00:21:28:06
Thomas Ahern
our challenge sometimes is like, we know there's so much more opportunity and we can help them so much more, but we see the limiting behaviors and we see the organizational challenges. And so in a nutshell,

00:21:28:06 - 00:21:31:13
Thomas Ahern
when I meet with the sales team, I can see that

00:21:31:13 - 00:21:36:11
Thomas Ahern
they're, in sort of silos. There's not a lot of collaboration going on.

00:21:36:11 - 00:21:45:16
Thomas Ahern
And this person is doing this over here, and this person is doing this over there. And even though one of the things that we do at impact is we help to standardize, document and have

00:21:45:16 - 00:21:49:01
Thomas Ahern
a consistent sales process that everybody

00:21:49:01 - 00:21:58:19
Thomas Ahern
follows because we know it's not dependent on talent, it's dependent on the system. And then we can find where to utilize assignments, selling in certain places that are become automatic.

00:21:58:21 - 00:22:01:14
Thomas Ahern
This is the best process for the best outcome,

00:22:01:14 - 00:22:01:22
Thomas Ahern
and it

00:22:01:22 - 00:22:09:14
Thomas Ahern
still leaves some creativity for the salesperson to be a salesperson. But there are certain things we all do well. The sun in this situation

00:22:09:14 - 00:22:12:11
Thomas Ahern
is undermining the process. And

00:22:12:11 - 00:22:19:05
Thomas Ahern
that's the way he's been doing it for decades. But the culture of the organization tolerates it.

00:22:19:05 - 00:22:22:11
Thomas Ahern
these are the kind of level challenging companies. So I'm talking to

00:22:22:11 - 00:22:25:06
Thomas Ahern
this business owner who is trying to set his company up,

00:22:25:06 - 00:22:33:01
Thomas Ahern
be 70 something years old, he wants to pull out and leave a sustaining and he's very well respected in the industry.

00:22:33:01 - 00:22:35:21
Alex Winter
but that's a tough conversation because there's layers to it, because it's not just his

00:22:35:21 - 00:22:37:09
Alex Winter
business in the sales team

00:22:37:09 - 00:22:39:21
Alex Winter
is a father and son dynamic as well. So there's

00:22:39:21 - 00:22:42:06
Alex Winter
a lot to unpack there I can imagine that's difficult. Yeah.

00:22:42:06 - 00:22:58:11
Thomas Ahern
So to cut to the chase, you know he can acknowledge and see what's going on. But at some point I have to help him understand that the lack of limits and boundaries with his son creates an unsafe environment and inconsistencies within the company that's impacting his other employees.

00:22:58:11 - 00:23:01:11
Thomas Ahern
And so they have a sort of several of these conversations

00:23:01:11 - 00:23:02:08
Thomas Ahern
privately,

00:23:02:08 - 00:23:07:07
Thomas Ahern
or with another leadership person in the room to help that person because that person's also frustrated.

00:23:07:09 - 00:23:09:07
Thomas Ahern
We can have some conversations that

00:23:09:07 - 00:23:13:03
Thomas Ahern
normally wouldn't take place or just haven't taken place in

00:23:13:03 - 00:23:13:12
Thomas Ahern
decades.

00:23:13:12 - 00:23:25:23
Thomas Ahern
And so for me, it's like poof! It's like such a relief. People feel so much better that the ostrich is no longer. We're actually having the conversation about something that everybody's wanted to say, but couldn't say.

00:23:25:23 - 00:23:30:09
Thomas Ahern
And leaders don't always get the right feedback because they're in that leadership role.

00:23:30:15 - 00:23:34:09
Thomas Ahern
They're the boss. And so people tell them what they want to hear a lot. So it's hard to trust anything. But

00:23:34:09 - 00:23:46:12
Thomas Ahern
when it comes from an independent person like me that they know is committed to their growth and the sustainability of their company, they're like, wow, I trust Thomas, and look at this observation. He's tell me, I've got to make some change.

00:23:46:12 - 00:23:47:21
Thomas Ahern
And I didn't even think about

00:23:47:21 - 00:23:50:09
Thomas Ahern
the impact of how it's having in other people.

00:23:50:09 - 00:24:03:12
Thomas Ahern
when we have the conversation now, he's coming around and he's like, I'm having these conversations, not just conversations like daddy, son, but he's writing stuff down and saying, hey, I'm establishing some outcomes and some expectations by certain dates.

00:24:03:12 - 00:24:09:01
Thomas Ahern
So that we know this is going to move forward. And the organization of a sales team is starting to interact more. There's more collaboration.

00:24:09:01 - 00:24:15:02
Thomas Ahern
pulling him forward a little bit, bringing him along. So we've got some momentum and and continue to see some success. But I think

00:24:15:02 - 00:24:21:05
Thomas Ahern
right the forefront of the potentiality of like breaking through to another level that they didn't even imagine before.

00:24:21:07 - 00:24:22:04
Alex Winter
That's really cool.

00:24:22:06 - 00:24:24:07
Thomas Ahern
That's a great help and a good example. It's a great.

00:24:24:07 - 00:24:25:04
Alex Winter
Story. Yeah, that's.

00:24:25:04 - 00:24:26:04
Thomas Ahern
A good one.

00:24:26:04 - 00:24:26:20
Alex Winter
It also plays into

00:24:26:20 - 00:24:28:22
Alex Winter
team dynamics because if you're on the sales team,

00:24:28:22 - 00:24:32:11
Alex Winter
here's my empathy piece coming out. Right. Because I'm thinking if I'm the person on the sales team,

00:24:32:11 - 00:24:35:04
Alex Winter
You're going to go to the boss and say something about his son.

00:24:35:04 - 00:24:37:06
Alex Winter
that's a really hard spot to be in.

00:24:37:06 - 00:24:41:07
Alex Winter
And you have to be radically candid in those moments. But that's easier said than done.

00:24:41:07 - 00:24:43:02
Alex Winter
I know I personally would struggle if I was in

00:24:43:02 - 00:24:44:00
Alex Winter
a situation like that,

00:24:44:00 - 00:24:47:03
Alex Winter
trying to break through. So to have someone like you with outside perspective

00:24:47:03 - 00:24:52:02
Alex Winter
that can give an objective view at what's going on, it's certainly changing the dynamics.

00:24:52:02 - 00:24:52:08
Alex Winter
So

00:24:52:08 - 00:24:54:09
Alex Winter
but this is a perfect segue to into my next question.

00:24:54:09 - 00:24:54:23
Alex Winter
we hear this a lot

00:24:54:23 - 00:25:03:11
Alex Winter
where like people think Endless customers is designed to help teams or companies that, like, have an issue or that like something's broken, it needs fixing. And that

00:25:03:11 - 00:25:05:11
Alex Winter
is true. But that's not always the case.

00:25:05:11 - 00:25:10:01
Alex Winter
what are the ways that endless customers can help companies that maybe are doing really good but want to go from good

00:25:10:01 - 00:25:11:12
Alex Winter
to great or excellent?

00:25:11:12 - 00:25:20:19
Thomas Ahern
Well, I think that's a it's almost a foregone conclusion that, you know, whether it's an athlete, a business leader, you know, politician, anybody.

00:25:20:19 - 00:25:25:16
Thomas Ahern
we all need somebody that can provide us with authentic, real

00:25:25:16 - 00:25:30:20
Thomas Ahern
feedback, particularly if we have a growth mindset. And we're always

00:25:30:20 - 00:25:32:13
Thomas Ahern
trying to get to that next level.

00:25:32:13 - 00:25:39:20
Thomas Ahern
You know, I was training to do the 2019 Ironman. I didn't hire a coach because I got injured. I hired a coach because I had a dream

00:25:39:20 - 00:25:51:05
Thomas Ahern
and I knew I didn't know what I didn't know, and I'd never done an Ironman before, and I never thought I could do it. I'd done multiple half Ironman and other sprint and Olympic level stuff, but when my boss said,

00:25:51:05 - 00:25:52:00
Thomas Ahern
we're doing it, I said, I'm

00:25:52:00 - 00:25:57:02
Thomas Ahern
220 pounds, is I my body cannot do an Ironman, you know?

00:25:57:02 - 00:26:04:15
Thomas Ahern
No, we're doing it. So know you have to have a coach to sort of like help me understand what I don't understand. So if I didn't have nutritional help,

00:26:04:15 - 00:26:12:00
Thomas Ahern
if I didn't have, you know, help analyzing my swim stroke a little better, my breathing, you know, there's a good chance I would have made a lot of mistakes.

00:26:12:05 - 00:26:22:02
Thomas Ahern
I would have taken a lot longer to get ready. And although I might have made it through the Ironman, I probably wouldn't have made it through as well as I did. And I did avoid injury

00:26:22:02 - 00:26:22:16
Thomas Ahern
which is huge.

00:26:22:16 - 00:26:22:20
Alex Winter
That's

00:26:22:20 - 00:26:23:19
Alex Winter
a big deal.

00:26:23:19 - 00:26:35:17
Thomas Ahern
it's all about that. You get injured, you're out. But for any business leader that's thinking about I'm just going to do this in case, you know, if something breaks. We kind of missed the boat. We said there's an opportunity early on to demonstrate the courage,

00:26:35:17 - 00:26:39:07
Thomas Ahern
and the fortitude in the in the commitment and dedication

00:26:39:07 - 00:26:40:05
Thomas Ahern
and discipline.

00:26:40:05 - 00:26:49:07
Thomas Ahern
That's the part that, you know, I think separates people's. Do I have the discipline to take this on, on a regular basis and create a routine that eventually feels

00:26:49:07 - 00:26:52:08
Thomas Ahern
more comfortable because just it's just the way I do things now.

00:26:52:08 - 00:26:58:08
Thomas Ahern
I understand it's difficult and it's uncomfortable, but like anything when it comes to growth, at first it's going to feel weird.

00:26:58:08 - 00:27:05:06
Thomas Ahern
I mean, first time you were probably doing a podcast, you're probably like, oh my God, this is so weird. You know, it worked out. It's just who you are now, right?

00:27:05:06 - 00:27:05:22
Alex Winter
100%.

00:27:05:22 - 00:27:12:13
Alex Winter
that's very relatable because I am always behind the camera. And I went to film school, so I very much studied the art and tech of

00:27:12:13 - 00:27:21:19
Alex Winter
being behind the scenes, and to be in the studio and having Austin really film everything, and me being the subject matter expert or the host or whatever you want to call me,

00:27:21:19 - 00:27:22:21
Alex Winter
it was very uncomfortable.

00:27:22:21 - 00:27:24:20
Alex Winter
And if you go back and look at the first couple episodes

00:27:24:20 - 00:27:28:01
Alex Winter
At least from my perspective. They're painful and there's definitely been an evolution.

00:27:28:01 - 00:27:31:12
Alex Winter
That's been a really cool journey for me, and I'm certainly a lot better

00:27:31:12 - 00:27:32:19
Alex Winter
today than I was back then.

00:27:32:19 - 00:27:37:14
Alex Winter
And I'm sure a year from now I'll be saying the same thing as you continue to do these things. It's just with practice.

00:27:37:14 - 00:27:41:20
Alex Winter
It's growing pains. They call it growing pains for a reason. It hurts a little bit, but it's it's a good hurt

00:27:41:20 - 00:27:46:17
Alex Winter
it's rewarding. There's it's taking you to a place that has positive returns, in my opinion.

00:27:46:17 - 00:27:50:06
Thomas Ahern
just one last point in regards to what you just described.

00:27:50:06 - 00:27:56:11
Thomas Ahern
and I think this goes back to one of your questions early, like, well, why don't more people because like only 17% of business owners use a coach.

00:27:56:11 - 00:28:03:01
Thomas Ahern
But there are like 71 million coaches globally and it's like a $31 billion industry.

00:28:03:01 - 00:28:04:04
Thomas Ahern
So something's working

00:28:04:04 - 00:28:07:19
Thomas Ahern
But the thing for me is and this I personally can relate to this.

00:28:07:19 - 00:28:14:00
Thomas Ahern
know I experienced a lot of success in my life. And at one point as chief marketing officer, I felt like I was at the top of my game and

00:28:14:00 - 00:28:17:08
Thomas Ahern
I got to the top as far as I could get in terms of sales and marketing.

00:28:17:13 - 00:28:20:12
Thomas Ahern
I never really wanted to be a CEO because that's that's such a

00:28:20:12 - 00:28:24:20
Thomas Ahern
tough place to be. You're totally alone, and if you don't have a coach, I feel really bad for you. But

00:28:24:20 - 00:28:36:20
Thomas Ahern
But as CMO, there's some common characteristics, because you are the head of a lot of different departments and you're leading a lot of people, especially when you're a 130, $140 million company.

00:28:36:20 - 00:28:43:12
Thomas Ahern
you can experience a lot of success. But if you don't take the time and have the emotional intelligence to reflect on,

00:28:43:12 - 00:28:44:10
Thomas Ahern
am I okay?

00:28:44:10 - 00:28:52:08
Thomas Ahern
how am I showing up? Do I feel good? I might Jeter does all the stuff that I'm doing to make this. Is it worth it? Do I feel good about whatever?

00:28:52:09 - 00:29:02:14
Thomas Ahern
Am I integrated? Am I coherent? Is my brain and my heart aligned so that all the things that I do on a day to day basis to be successful? Does it integrate

00:29:02:14 - 00:29:12:13
Thomas Ahern
with me so that I feel whole and good? And if I don't. And that's what CEOs should do when they're in especially, you know, smaller companies that are midsize companies that are,

00:29:12:13 - 00:29:15:09
Thomas Ahern
trying to do a lot of different things all at the same time.

00:29:15:09 - 00:29:19:04
Thomas Ahern
they don't take the time to reflect on that stuff and integrate,

00:29:19:04 - 00:29:26:20
Thomas Ahern
an approach to their life that has meaning and purpose and brings joy to them, then it's almost in some ways

00:29:26:20 - 00:29:37:22
Thomas Ahern
meaningful and hollow. And that's where, again, a good coach, it provides good mentorship, can help you to reflect on those and make the subtle changes.

00:29:37:22 - 00:29:46:07
Thomas Ahern
Maybe it's living, maybe 30s of gratitude when you wake up in the morning. I'm not saying everybody should do yoga or go on silent retreats.

00:29:46:07 - 00:29:47:12
Thomas Ahern
But maybe that's good too,

00:29:47:12 - 00:29:57:13
Thomas Ahern
right? And there's just different ways of integrating stuff that allows you to, to be in touch with yourself in a way that also it lives through you to the people that are surrounding you and,

00:29:57:13 - 00:30:02:03
Thomas Ahern
help you have a business that really feels purposeful.

00:30:02:06 - 00:30:05:05
Alex Winter
Yeah. What you just said is so important, and it resonates with me

00:30:05:05 - 00:30:08:20
Alex Winter
And I say that because CEOs, it is lonely at the top.

00:30:08:20 - 00:30:09:06
Thomas Ahern
yeah.

00:30:09:06 - 00:30:10:02
Alex Winter
But it doesn't have to be

00:30:10:02 - 00:30:13:18
Alex Winter
because you can have a coach. Yes. But the other piece that you said that really stuck out to me is

00:30:13:18 - 00:30:23:08
Alex Winter
you need to have confidence because your energy, when you're in a team meeting, your energy trickles down to every person in the company. So if you're discombobulated, if you're nervous, if you're

00:30:23:08 - 00:30:25:02
Alex Winter
jittery, that's going to distill

00:30:25:02 - 00:30:26:11
Alex Winter
throughout the whole organization.

00:30:26:11 - 00:30:29:02
Alex Winter
So how you come to those meetings is

00:30:29:02 - 00:30:31:03
Alex Winter
critical because that energy

00:30:31:03 - 00:30:37:20
Alex Winter
permeates through your whole company. So you really have to be mindful of that. And find ways, whether it's yoga or whatever, is going to help you

00:30:37:20 - 00:30:43:18
Alex Winter
be like the best version of yourself to come to those meetings correctly so that you can empower people versus scare people.

00:30:43:18 - 00:30:46:22
Thomas Ahern
Yeah. And that's that feeds right into alignment. So like,

00:30:46:22 - 00:30:55:18
Thomas Ahern
when I go in to do alignments, which are essentially the first part of your kickoff, it's really when we get the whole company together. Yeah. And we talk to them about

00:30:55:18 - 00:30:59:20
Thomas Ahern
the what, the why and the how of how enlist customers is going to impact them.

00:30:59:20 - 00:31:01:15
Thomas Ahern
The company, their brand,

00:31:01:15 - 00:31:02:12
Thomas Ahern
all that stuff.

00:31:02:12 - 00:31:10:12
Thomas Ahern
But I can tell it about, you know, ten minutes, you know, right away if, if this company or this, you know, leader.

00:31:10:12 - 00:31:13:10
Thomas Ahern
unfortunately, this doesn't really happen very often because

00:31:13:10 - 00:31:20:00
Thomas Ahern
we do such a great job on the front end of educating people and practicing what we preach around, what they can expect.

00:31:20:00 - 00:31:30:23
Thomas Ahern
But when you're really looking at that next level down, like how committed is this company, how committed is this, this leader in in a short period of time, you can tell the difference between those that are living it, breathing it,

00:31:30:23 - 00:31:32:18
Thomas Ahern
in assimilating

00:31:32:18 - 00:31:39:19
Thomas Ahern
the theories, the practices and the way the messaging, the communication, all in a very short period of time, because

00:31:39:19 - 00:31:44:16
Thomas Ahern
They're the ones that are willing to get out there on video. They're the ones that are integrating it into

00:31:44:16 - 00:31:57:02
Thomas Ahern
their daily huddles or their L10 meetings, or their VTL, their aligning their rocks, if you will. If you're familiar with the OS, with their endless customer focus areas. So it becomes

00:31:57:02 - 00:32:05:10
Thomas Ahern
the way the system, the culture, the infrastructure has been built to include the support of making this thing go.

00:32:05:10 - 00:32:06:10
Thomas Ahern
that's a big ask,

00:32:06:10 - 00:32:14:12
Thomas Ahern
but it's also a big payoff when you do it, because now you're really living and breathing it, and it just feels effortless because this is just what we do now that,

00:32:14:12 - 00:32:18:03
Thomas Ahern
built the synapses in my brain to. Yeah, absolutely. Make it go.

00:32:18:04 - 00:32:18:20
Alex Winter
No, absolutely.

00:32:18:20 - 00:32:21:22
Alex Winter
And we've seen it time and time again. It's so true. I couldn't agree with you more.

00:32:21:22 - 00:32:24:15
Alex Winter
we've had a great conversation. We covered a lot of ground today.

00:32:24:15 - 00:32:26:03
Alex Winter
And I really appreciate your time, but this is my

00:32:26:03 - 00:32:27:12
Alex Winter
favorite part of the show. I always ask this,

00:32:27:12 - 00:32:29:23
Alex Winter
what's the one thing for our viewers and our listeners out there?

00:32:30:05 - 00:32:34:11
Alex Winter
If they had to take one thing away from this conversation, what would you say that that is for them?

00:32:34:14 - 00:32:47:09
Thomas Ahern
The one thing well, I've probably my favorite phrase of the whole conversation was it if it doesn't live in you, it can't live through you. And so every piece of this conversation, from emotional intelligence to coaching or what have you,

00:32:47:09 - 00:32:59:09
Thomas Ahern
you got to bring it in and live it. You can't be an external attached thing. You've got to take an inward journey and just see where it fits in its relationship to your core values, so that when you're being it,

00:32:59:09 - 00:33:02:02
Thomas Ahern
people can feel it and they want to follow you.

00:33:02:02 - 00:33:14:13
Thomas Ahern
They want to do the thing because you're so inspiring and inspirational because it it lives in you. And for me, that's how I've tried to live my career and my life. And so that's probably my one thing

00:33:14:13 - 00:33:15:12
Thomas Ahern
that's great advice.

00:33:15:12 - 00:33:16:01
Alex Winter
Really great

00:33:16:01 - 00:33:17:13
Alex Winter
advice, Thomas. Thank you for your time

00:33:17:13 - 00:33:18:17
Alex Winter
and for being on the show.

00:33:18:17 - 00:33:22:03
Thomas Ahern
Yeah, it was, but Alex, I appreciate it. Hopefully you could use

00:33:22:03 - 00:33:23:15
Thomas Ahern
some of the episode I think.

00:33:23:15 - 00:33:23:23
Alex Winter
So I

00:33:23:23 - 00:33:32:17
Alex Winter
know I think you're going to help out a lot of, business leaders and just a lot of people in general out there. And I know I have some key takeaways here as well, and we're definitely going to have you back on the show again soon. So

00:33:32:17 - 00:33:34:09
Alex Winter
don't go too far. Okay.

00:33:34:09 - 00:33:34:19
Thomas Ahern
Thanks, man.

00:33:34:19 - 00:33:35:07
Alex Winter
All right.

00:33:35:07 - 00:33:41:00
Alex Winter
Thank you. And for everybody out there watching and listening, this is endless customers. I'm your host, Alex Winter. We'll catch you on the next episode.