The Manifesto That Changed a Market with Paragon Payroll [Endless Customers Podcast Ep. 137]

This transcript has been generated by AI and not checked for accuracy. 

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:03:19

Clarke Lyons

if you're thinking about joining in this customer's journey, do it.

00:00:03:22 - 00:00:09:22

Clarke Lyons

it's really meant to build an industry of leaders. And if you don't consider yourself one, then maybe set that out.

00:00:09:22 - 00:00:17:17

Clarke Lyons

But if you do want to be an industry leader, then I would say that the quicker that you can join the journey, the better.

00:00:17:19 - 00:00:35:04

Bob Ruffolo

You're listening to the Endless Customers podcast, brought to you by the team at IMPACT. Endless Customers is the proven system to become the most known and trusted brand in your market. You want to start to learn the principles of Endless Customers and how you can implement them in your business. Pick up a copy of Endless Customers, the national bestseller.

00:00:35:04 - 00:00:56:21

Bob Ruffolo

Wherever books are sold. Ready to start implementing Endless Customers in your business? Talk to IMPACT about how our coaching program can help you implement Endless Customers to success. And if you want to experience Endless Customers in person, do not miss our upcoming conference! Endless Customers Live in Chicago March 30th through April 1st, 2026. Registration is now open. And now onto the show.

00:00:56:21 - 00:00:58:12

Bob Ruffolo

Here's your host, Alex Winter.

00:00:58:17 - 00:01:07:02

Alex Winter

Today's episode is about what happens when a company decides to take a clear stand in its industry and builds its growth around belief, transparency and trust.

00:01:07:04 - 00:01:14:14

Alex Winter

I'm joined by Clark Lyons, the VP of brand marketing and growth at Paragon Payroll, a payroll company that serves one industry exclusively

00:01:14:17 - 00:01:22:08

Alex Winter

cannabis. And instead of positioning themselves as simply cannabis friendly. They made a bold decision to define what it means to be cannabis committed.

00:01:22:13 - 00:01:38:11

Alex Winter

That decision led to the creation of Paragon's Cannabis Manifesto, a public declaration of what they believe is broken in the cannabis payroll space. What real compliance looks like and why companies serving the industry need to do more than just quietly participate. They need to help move it forward.

00:01:38:17 - 00:01:59:00

Alex Winter

Publishing a manifesto like that in the highly regulated industry is a bold move. It's a stake in the ground. And for Paragon Payroll became a turning point. In this episode, we explore why Paragon chose to say what others wouldn't. How endless customers shaped that decision, and what changed once buyers clearly understood where Paragon stands. Clark, welcome to the show.

00:01:59:03 - 00:02:01:00

Clarke Lyons

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

00:02:01:02 - 00:02:14:02

Alex Winter

I am so excited to be talking with you and the Paragon team. I've heard so many great things from our impact coaches here. But before we get started, for our viewers and our listeners, can you just set the stage, tell everybody a little bit about yourself and about Paragon Payroll and what you guys do?

00:02:14:08 - 00:02:31:15

Clarke Lyons

Absolutely. Hi. I'm Clark Lyons. I am the VP of brand and marketing as well as growth strategy. Here at Paragon and Paragon Payroll is a, payroll company that helps with cannabis, companies and making sure they're compliant.

00:02:31:17 - 00:02:51:18

Alex Winter

Very cool, very cool. So I guess my first question, just to kick things off, because you're in the cannabis space, that's it sounds complicated, like highly regulated. Every state is different. There's all sorts of laws and rules, and some states are, are okay with it. Other ones aren't. How does that play into your day to day and just how operations work at Paragon?

00:02:51:19 - 00:03:11:13

Clarke Lyons

Yeah, I think it's really important. It's funny you say that because Paragon, you know, we're going to probably happen to this later, but because I'm very committed to the cannabis, space and the nuances mean that our team has to be well vetted and well invested in the growth of new businesses, existing businesses. It's so legacy market.

00:03:11:13 - 00:03:36:05

Clarke Lyons

So, how we shop, it really depends on where someone is located and, what their needs are. But ultimately, you know, we are here to support cannabis businesses, legally, in this space and to regulate themselves the right way and to make sure that we're keeping them compliant. We want them to be thriving. And, we believe in their ability to be a thriving business.

00:03:36:08 - 00:03:57:12

Alex Winter

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's so important to just like the manifesto of the company, you have to support it from the ground floor, because otherwise these companies aren't going to get the support and the information that they need. So how does that play into like your growth strategy compared to like a traditional payroll company? Because it seems a little bit different than what typical payroll companies are doing?

00:03:57:14 - 00:04:19:22

Clarke Lyons

Yeah, I would say, honestly, you know, payroll is I would say in a traditional market, payroll isn't as detrimental. I think operating in cannabis forced us to have to confront something that traditional markets don't have to think about, which is trust building and ensuring that we follow through and that we don't leave them hanging. It is a volatile market.

00:04:19:22 - 00:04:43:18

Clarke Lyons

It's a very difficult market for a lot of people. And, you know, something very small could cost someone their business completely. And I think that, Paragon. Well knows their responsibility in this market. And so I think the biggest hurdle and the biggest difference, is the trust building aspect and making sure that people understand,

00:04:43:20 - 00:04:47:18

Clarke Lyons

the brevity of having a trusted that IT partner.

00:04:47:20 - 00:05:16:18

Alex Winter

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Trust is such a huge pillar in doing business in any. It doesn't matter what space or industry, it doesn't matter what your interest is as a major principle that we believe in strongly here at impact. And if you've read endless customers or know anything about endless customers, that's like the root of it. So can we talk a little bit about, what was broken and how payroll companies, especially you guys, started helping the cannabis industry because I'm sure there's a lot of regulation, but like, this is still a new thing in a lot of places here in Connecticut.

00:05:16:20 - 00:05:25:09

Alex Winter

We're pretty up for that. Like it's been legal here for a few years now. But how are you helping companies show up and do this correctly?

00:05:25:11 - 00:05:52:07

Clarke Lyons

Yeah, I would say similar to what we were talking about before, most payroll companies, especially in the cannabis space, saw this as a revenue opportunity, a revenue stream. They're like, okay, great, we're gonna hit the ground running. Cannabis is legalized. Let's just get as many business owners as possible to sign with our company. But what was broken kind of answer your question is vendors were charging inflated cannabis taxes just because, you know, the people in this space were cannabis specific, with no real added value as to why they were charging.

00:05:52:07 - 00:06:22:00

Clarke Lyons

The more you know, they would say we support cannabis companies, but they disappeared when accounts, you know, were flagged by, banks. Especially if they were, banking with federal banks. They didn't invest in education. They didn't invest in compliance clarity. They weren't providing any educational support for new, excited business owners to feel like they had some sort of business acumen, particularly in this space, to move forward, with clarity.

00:06:22:02 - 00:06:44:06

Clarke Lyons

I would also say that they didn't really care about the community health. They weren't immersed into, fostering actual community growth and lateral ecosystems. Just in general, I think it was a very predatory space for a lot of new business owners and current business owners that just didn't know that they were with predatory companies.

00:06:44:08 - 00:07:01:20

Alex Winter

Yeah, that it makes sense when you say, but I've never really thought about it that way, that there are predators out there. You have to be careful. So I've seen it here in my notes that you guys have this manifesto. Can you explain a little bit about how this came to be in what what the manifesto is and how it helps, run things at Paragon?

00:07:01:22 - 00:07:34:22

Clarke Lyons

Yeah. So kind of what we were leading to earlier where trust is such an inherent piece of this industry. I would like to say the one thing that I love about Paragon and working here is that we start with accountability first, and I have to give it to you and your team. Honestly, you helped us, pave an interesting way for us to confront some of the nuances within our industry and making sure that we weren't participating in any type of practice that could leave our, current clients future prospects at risk.

00:07:34:22 - 00:07:44:21

Clarke Lyons

And what that look like is digging deep into what impact we wanted to leave behind. We noticed that this is, like I said, a very,

00:07:44:23 - 00:07:56:15

Clarke Lyons

cannibalistic industry in the way that people have really, made a lot of money off of the backs of those who are just trying to survive.

00:07:56:18 - 00:08:09:15

Clarke Lyons

we tried to think through what we felt that the industry did not have, which was us calling out the industry. And that's where the manifesto came to be. It was honest, earnest feedback into how you should vet vendors safely

00:08:09:21 - 00:08:23:08

Clarke Lyons

so we created a manifesto, and you can think of it like a way that new business owners, current business owners within the cannabis space can think through vendors and can think through whether they're predatory or truly committed to the cannabis space.

00:08:23:10 - 00:08:25:19

Clarke Lyons

So we've called it a cannabis committed manifesto.

00:08:25:21 - 00:08:48:02

Alex Winter

I love that that's very, very cool. And it's very disruptive and in a good way, in the sense that you're trying to use trust to keep it transparent, keep it real, and give people the tools they need to make the right decisions and informed decisions to work with good people and not with these these cannibalistic people that are out there that are basically sharks and that are negative for the industry.

00:08:48:04 - 00:08:51:16

Clarke Lyons

Yes, absolutely. That was definitely about the most important for us.

00:08:51:21 - 00:09:09:13

Alex Winter

Very cool. So as as you're running the marketing team and you're you're pushing content out and you're like trying to get the team behind this manifesto. What was it like working with your coaches at impact, and how did that, like, how did that all come together as far as like your your weekly monthly content plan and your strategy going forward?

00:09:09:15 - 00:09:26:06

Clarke Lyons

feel like the main focus of the impact team. As we were trying to decide what we were going to do for a rollout of something like a cannabis committed manifesto, was thinking back with the team, trying to take what I said earlier, accountability. But also bracing ourselves

00:09:26:11 - 00:09:40:02

Clarke Lyons

you know, unveiling a truth within the industry that's a problem. You have to make sure that everybody is on the same accord in terms of that approach. So for us, we wanted to make sure that we were meeting the accessibility needs of our, clients and our customers, our audience at large.

00:09:40:05 - 00:09:56:20

Clarke Lyons

They're very busy, so they might not have time to read it so that, we also wanted to make sure that it was audible so they could receive it easily, but also that our team knew the feedback that it might bring. And, you know, it could bring heat to the kitchen, if you will, when you're calling up some trees.

00:09:56:20 - 00:10:04:07

Clarke Lyons

So that was kind of the main focus with impact is like, how do we talk through these things? And are we ready and what does that look like.

00:10:04:09 - 00:10:20:22

Alex Winter

Yeah. So I love hearing that. And as you you put this clear stake in the ground. Right. You really took the stance. You created this manifesto. You started to put out content around it. What was the feedback like? Did you get any any like negative feedback or did you get people that were like, oh my gosh, what are you doing?

00:10:20:22 - 00:10:27:19

Alex Winter

You're disrupting, you can't do this. Or like, well, what was that like for you as you were navigating through through that space?

00:10:27:21 - 00:11:10:15

Clarke Lyons

You know, it's funny because I think that all feedback, not to sound corny, but I think all feedback was positive because it was made with the intention to disrupt. And I think that regardless of it, it started conversation. I think we had a lot more positive feedback than we even anticipated. I think a lot of our partners, a lot of our clients, a lot of, you know, from CPAs to, just everyone later on, the space really had real respect for it, for the fact that we were had enough gusto to do it, and just had the energy behind it, that we could execute something like this and stand in it

00:11:10:15 - 00:11:28:08

Clarke Lyons

and know that it would start conversation. So I don't think we had any like, negative feedback. It started a dialog with, which was the intention. And I think for some, you know, they felt like, okay, well, that's not fair. You know, for you to call it, call out everyone in this way. What if people are functioning like this because they have no choice?

00:11:28:08 - 00:12:05:08

Clarke Lyons

What if you know they aren't banking correctly? What if they don't know that? It brought the conversation out to light and the fact is that it also made us have to hold a mirror up to ourselves and make sure that we were rooted in doing the things that we were calling out. So I think the end of the day, it did what it was supposed to do, which was cause conversation and hold us all accountable to a certain stake, a certain level of integrity, where all across the board, we're talking through these things and making sure that we're rooted in forward momentum of the community and, making sure that we're meeting the needs

00:12:05:08 - 00:12:20:14

Clarke Lyons

of the people that deserve to have thriving businesses and don't deserve to have, you know, any type of service or any type of partnership that was blacklists it just because they're in the kind of the space.

00:12:20:16 - 00:12:37:22

Alex Winter

Yeah, absolutely. Now, I love that you state your claim and you really just leaned into it and kept it real. We're honest and tried your best to build trust and almost like, pull the the veil back on what was going on. How did that how did that is heading up the marketing team, creating this content, creating this manifesto.

00:12:37:22 - 00:12:50:16

Alex Winter

How did the leadership team play into this? Because it sounds like this is a very brave step to take as an organization. Is was this from the top down like was everybody brought in and just like supporting this movement forward or what was that like for for you and for your team?

00:12:50:18 - 00:13:18:05

Clarke Lyons

Yeah, I think initially when we were starting out, it was not a manifesto. A it was really okay. What are the problems in this industry where do we feel like, the industry really needs to take a leap forward in progression, ourselves included. And where can we best execute, a piece that would cause some sort of, forward momentum?

00:13:18:05 - 00:13:22:02

Clarke Lyons

And I think that initially, yes, it started from leadership

00:13:22:06 - 00:13:46:14

Clarke Lyons

Leading reasons why we, we even came up with the manifesto is because we saw so many people being dropped, they would come to, Paragon terrified to, have a payroll partner, which is very abnormal. You should not be afraid to have your people get paid on time in the right way. You shouldn't be afraid. Right. Being compliant often be afraid of going to the people that are meant to help you.

00:13:46:14 - 00:14:08:05

Clarke Lyons

You should be uplifted and eager that you will have a peace of mind. Because this in this industry, a lot of the HR teams are overwhelmed, you know, a lot of the CEO level, C-suite level, owners are very overwhelmed and they're just trying to get their stuff done. And they should not be burdened by small things that we could easily take on.

00:14:08:05 - 00:14:27:19

Clarke Lyons

But they were dealing with predatory companies prior to being with us. And, you know, people might not want them to be a part of their company just because they're in cannabis. They might, you know, say, no, we're not even doing your payroll. Or they were doing their payroll and then getting dropped because they were lying to federal banks that they were having, cannabis clients.

00:14:27:19 - 00:14:49:23

Clarke Lyons

So really, I think it started with us thinking through the needs of our people, and then trying to meet that need. So I would say our leadership team really band together and tried to think through what are the top priorities that we see day in and day out as problems, and how can we build something to challenge those notions?

00:14:50:01 - 00:15:04:19

Alex Winter

Gosh, you know, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for thanks for clarifying that. That's, this is all just really fascinating to me because you're right, people shouldn't be afraid of payroll. That's a that should be a trusted partner in your business. So, it sounds like you've really flipped the switch and have helped a lot of people.

00:15:05:00 - 00:15:18:04

Alex Winter

Do you still find after the manifestos come out and after the content you've been producing, working through the endless customer system, do you feel like people come to you with more trust, like they're ready to do business with you? How do you think like to fix that? Yeah.

00:15:18:05 - 00:15:46:03

Clarke Lyons

Absolutely. I don't think it's ever a fix though, because, you know, our the climate right now is ever evolving. So I don't think it's ever a fixed situation. I think it always evolves to something else. But I would say that for the amount of times that we've gone to an event or, you know, I lobbied at NCAA, on behalf of the in DC, I've lobbied for business owners, to receive the right fair treatment.

00:15:46:05 - 00:16:06:12

Clarke Lyons

And no one was at events. People come up to us and they're like, I read the manifesto, I feel seen, I feel supported. I'm thankful that someone taught me the ways to approach, you know, the industry. I never knew to think of it this way. I didn't know there was anything wrong in them charging me more. You know, or we've been burned before, but this is a different way of approaching it.

00:16:06:12 - 00:16:26:08

Clarke Lyons

And even if they don't come to us, at least they know the right way of thinking. For lateral businesses or lateral vendors. And I think a lot of people don't want a vendor. They want a partner, they want somebody they can look towards and trust that they are well guided through the process because it is about the industry's ever evolving, ever changing.

00:16:26:10 - 00:16:49:04

Clarke Lyons

Like I said, it's a legacy market. So there's some inherent wisdom and inherent problems that this industry just kind of gets as a generational, shoe into it being legalized. And I think that they need people that are supporting them from ground level and have been rooted in cannabis in a way that is not exploitative to their experience.

00:16:49:09 - 00:17:18:21

Clarke Lyons

Yeah, they just want to make sure they're paying their people on time and, that their company can continue to grow and maintain and sustain. Yeah. So I think if anything, it has been a really positive momentum just because they actually feel mentally seen and validated, or they feel like they've learned something and know a new approach to how to step forward as the, their business owner.

00:17:18:23 - 00:17:38:04

Alex Winter

Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. Nice. So I'm curious, had you heard of endless customers before but before engaging with impact or like it because clearly you have marketing experience. This isn't your first rodeo. Have you ever heard of this system before? Is this new to you? And what was that like going through it as you learned it?

00:17:38:06 - 00:17:56:11

Clarke Lyons

It's interesting because I heard it in passing because Brian McVicker and shout out to him, he is, the person who came to me first and was just like, I think this team is incredible. I saw them speak, you know, I saw a book that they had, and I think that they would do wonders for our team.

00:17:56:11 - 00:18:21:04

Clarke Lyons

I'm curious about them. Have you ever heard about them? And when he started, I actually had heard of you all in passing, but not deeply. And in doing, you know, reading up, I was like, this is an interesting approach about how they are helping businesses communicate who they are and where they are in the industry. And so prior to that, no, I didn't have, in-depth knowledge until it came to me with it.

00:18:21:06 - 00:18:39:04

Alex Winter

Okay. Nice. And how has it been going from not really knowing anything, exploring a little bit. And then now you're you're working with our coaches, you're working with the team. You you're, you're living and breathing endless customers. And it seems to be working very well for you. So what what's been that journey for you, like.

00:18:39:06 - 00:19:09:20

Clarke Lyons

The journey has been so dynamic and so beautiful, I feel, because when you guys first came and we partnered with you all, you know, it's a running joke on the marketing department. So it's just me, myself and I in the marketing department. And a lot of what was required was marketing and heavy on our behalf. If we had and to redo our site, I think we needed to work on and that we were trying to elevate and that we were trying to meet the, experiential needs of our community.

00:19:09:22 - 00:19:34:00

Clarke Lyons

And I think that we well knew that we were biting off a lot, and we wanted to make sure that we weren't biting off more than we could chew. And luckily, having such a great team, it helped us navigate, you know, making sure that each step of the way we could find a pathway forward that made sense and that was also, again, elevating our industry and elevating our community.

00:19:34:02 - 00:20:03:22

Clarke Lyons

And so it looked like starting with small meetings with leadership, namely Brian, Brandi and I on our team, and taking that to having larger discussions and then trying to figure out, well, you know, all across the board, where could this journey help, our business better state who we are and take a true stance in the industry that we could be loud and proud about.

00:20:04:00 - 00:20:17:08

Alex Winter

I love hearing that. I think that's great. And you guys are loud and proud and are crushing it. And I'm really excited to see where this takes you into the future. What does that look like for you as you're you know, we're getting into 2026 and beyond. What's the future for Paragon look like?

00:20:17:10 - 00:21:00:13

Clarke Lyons

Yeah. So we're so excited. I think that we are definitely leaning into, being even more grassroots than we already are. We definitely are targeting, certain areas like, coming up, we are doing an event in Minnesota, and we are sponsoring an event in which we are giving social equity discounts to any social equity team. We are having a lot of our members on team A part of the NCAA board, which helps progress a lot of change and, you know, helps educate, a lot of new businesses, new licensees in this space.

00:21:00:15 - 00:21:26:17

Clarke Lyons

We believe in uplifting educational equity. We started a can of you division, which helps a lot of new business owners be able to help train their team about the cannabis space. And, so ultimately, I think we're rooted in educational equity. We're rooted in community involvement. We're rooted in, giving accessibility to spaces that otherwise would be overlooked or overcharged or overpriced.

00:21:26:17 - 00:21:35:02

Clarke Lyons

And we are just committed to always meeting the needs of our community and whatever ways, you know, we see fit.

00:21:35:03 - 00:21:52:11

Alex Winter

Excellent. And that how does this just to paint the picture for our listeners and our viewers out there, Stan, starting with endless customers and going on this journey, putting out the manifesto, how has it changed the business from maybe like a revenue standpoint or maybe from a lead standpoint? And can you share a little bit of of that with us just to paint the picture?

00:21:52:13 - 00:22:22:03

Clarke Lyons

Yeah, I would say honestly, it has helped generate a lot of a lot more leads, since we started this journey, I think namely because there was in our industry, like I said, an educational gap. So we went from not having any blogs to then blogging three times a week and then even more. So when you're talking about, using those blogs as a sales enablement tool so that, we could use that within the sales process.

00:22:22:05 - 00:22:54:17

Clarke Lyons

And I think more importantly, we harness the respect of, you know, a lot of our ecosystem and partners. And, now we are participating in a lot of commerce. And as much like these, we are on panels. We're being asked to be on, you know, magazines. We were featured in, CBI, which is a is an important, cannabis business insights is an important magazine in our industry as, like, a head company.

00:22:54:17 - 00:23:23:16

Clarke Lyons

Watch out for, we've become one of the best workplaces to work for. And I think that it's just made us so much more expansive in our audience range. And, that's just not in clients alone. That's also and like I said, the ecosystem of other partners and, I think we are forever indebted and grateful for, you know, this experience for sure.

00:23:23:18 - 00:23:37:09

Alex Winter

Wow. I'm happy to hear that. I love hearing that. It sounds like there's a wonderful ripple effect happening, not just for Paragon, but for your partners. And it's like, the rising tide, this lifting all the boats. That's just really wonderful to hear. So congratulations.

00:23:37:11 - 00:23:38:05

Clarke Lyons

Thank you.

00:23:38:07 - 00:23:52:05

Alex Winter

Last question for you, I gotta I got one I got to ask this is when I ask on almost every show for people that don't know a lot about Endless Customers, maybe they're there. Back when you were first starting your journey, you maybe had heard about IMPACT, or maybe you heard about the book but didn't know too much about it.

00:23:52:07 - 00:23:58:11

Alex Winter

What would you say to them right now? If they're like thinking about dipping their toe in the proverbial waters?

00:23:58:12 - 00:24:23:08

Clarke Lyons

I would say if you're thinking about joining in this customer's journey, do it. Do it quickly. And to make sure that everyone on your team is invested in the forward momentum of their company and of their teams. I think that it takes a lot of courage. Because you don't show you if you're actually committed to the space or if you're adjacent to it, which is two completely different experiences.

00:24:23:08 - 00:24:45:06

Clarke Lyons

And, you know, are you making sure that your business is protected? Are you making sure that you're well educated and what you know, are you standing in something, or are you hesitating and saying what others want? And I think that it's really meant to build an industry of leaders. And if you don't consider yourself one, then maybe set that out.

00:24:45:06 - 00:24:52:05

Clarke Lyons

But if you do want to be an industry leader, then I would say that the quicker that you can join the journey, the better.

00:24:52:07 - 00:24:57:11

Alex Winter

Couldn't have said it better myself. Clark, thank you so much for your time and for being on the show. Is great talking with you.

00:24:57:13 - 00:24:59:07

Clarke Lyons

Thank you. You as well. I really appreciate it.

00:24:59:07 - 00:25:11:02

Alex Winter

Absolutely. We're definitely have to check back in. I want to see how the journey continues to take you to new places. So again, thank you for your time and for everybody out there watching and listening. This is endless customers. I am your host, Alex Winter. We will see you on the next episode.