How One Product Comparison Video Generated Over $2M in Revenue [Endless Customers Podcast Ep. 189]

This transcript has been generated by AI and not checked for accuracy. 

[00:00:00] Bob Ruffolo: About a year ago, John Strand, owner of a roofing company called Lock N Ladder, published a video comparing two roofing products. It was incredibly uncomfortable for him, and he thought he'd burn bridges with both manufacturers, but that wasn't the case. One of them loved it, and to this date, his team tracked nearly $2.2 million in revenue back to that one video.

[00:00:20] Bob Ruffolo: So what made that video work so well, and what can we learn from it? That's exactly what John and I are going to talk about on today's episode, which was filmed on site at Endless Customers Live. Let's get into it​

[00:01:14] Bob Ruffolo: And welcome back to the Endless Customers Podcast, coming at you live from Endless Customers Live. We are here in a breakout room. We got workshops going on out there, but we're here, and we have an award winner, a Trust in Video award winner.

[00:01:28] Bob Ruffolo: We've got John Strand from Lock and Ladder. John, welcome to the podcast and welcome to Endless Customers Live.

[00:01:33] Jon Strand: Thank you. It's awesome to be here. Kind of, kind of mind-blowing, actually.

[00:01:37] Bob Ruffolo: Oh, well, you have a great story, and we are so excited to share it. Uh, so let's get right into it. Uh, you've been doing the Ask You Answer for a while and Endless Customers.

[00:01:46] Bob Ruffolo: How'd you first discover the Ask You Answer?

[00:01:49] Jon Strand: Gotta give credit to my wife. She has a friend who owns a, a RV company, actually several, and that was his playbook, and so she recommended, um, "Hey, you [00:02:00] should read this. He swears by it." I read the book. Instantly knew that this had to be the path for our company.

[00:02:07] Jon Strand: Uh, I've, you know, had 20 years in sales, and so I think the sales experience, all these things were registering as true as I'm reading through the book. And, uh, it was a bit scary at the time because I knew how to door knock and canvas and train people to do that. I'd done that nationally across the country, and we decided to pivot and make that our guide.

[00:02:30] Jon Strand: And we were... I mean, instantly I was, like, all in. This is the book. I made everybody in the company read it. We're gonna follow this to a T and not door knock, and, uh, it's been a great decision.

[00:02:41] Bob Ruffolo: That's great. So, um, instead of being outbound and, and what many home service companies feel they have to do in order to get business, you said, "Well, why don't we be the company people get to know, like, and trust, and they'll come to us?"

[00:02:57] Bob Ruffolo: And that was the big switch you were making. And you're very likable. You [00:03:00] got a rockstar personality. You've got a musical background as well, so, um, I'm sure that's, you know... Again, people do business with people they know, like, and trust, and that's what you're doing with video. So video is the reason why you're winning the award.

[00:03:12] Bob Ruffolo: You're doing some incredible things. We have a great story we're gonna share and a lot of lessons you can learn from this. Now, let's start early on. So you decide to go all in video. What steps, steps did you take, and what was the process of bringing a videographer onto your team?

[00:03:26] Jon Strand: Yeah. So the first step was total commitment. I mean, that, that is you have to truly commit. The second step was get myself out of the way.

[00:03:34] Jon Strand: Uh, I had a problem where because I could do video and I'd, I'd played with it in music, I th- I ignored the part in the chapter where you said, you know, "You're the CEO of the company. You can't be the videographer and the content manager." And so for a year, we were sort of doing video, but not releasing very much.

[00:03:52] Bob Ruffolo: ' Cause that, that's basically what's happened. So you said, "I'm gonna own this." But, um, what did that look like? So you do a few [00:04:00] videos and you pause for a few months and another, you had another fire and you, "I gotta get back to video." Yeah.

[00:04:04] Jon Strand: Yeah, it was very inconsistent, uh, because, you know, uh, when you're running a company, there's so many other hats you have to wear. And I'm thinking, "No, I'll be the exception to the rule." I was not the exception to the rule.

[00:04:16] Jon Strand: So for anybody listening, like, one of the first decisions as soon as you can, hire that videographer because, um, they're gonna really accelerate your ability to just push lots of content, create it, get it done, uh, to the point where we had to hire a second videographer, uh, because we were just getting such a backlog of content that we wanna push.

[00:04:38] Jon Strand: So yeah, the... But the first step is deciding that you're all in, and then,

[00:04:44] Bob Ruffolo: excuse me. Sure.

[00:04:45] Jon Strand: I'm a firm believer, like, your-- the mindset is everything, and I've dealt with removing limiting beliefs, and it's so easy to look at other people's content and make comparisons and get overwhelmed and decide, "Oh, I can't do that," or, "I'm not this [00:05:00] type."

[00:05:00] Jon Strand: Like, you have to get all that out, out of your head. If you're not the type of person who's gonna be doing great on camera, find that person. Maybe it's a salesperson, maybe it's your videographer, maybe it's somebody you hire. But, um-

[00:05:12] Bob Ruffolo: But you've gotten better on camera the more you've done it.

[00:05:14] Jon Strand: yeah, for sure.

[00:05:16] Jon Strand: Yeah, and what people don't see, it's like, you know, we have these polished videos we're putting out now, but my early videos before I was doing them for the trades were terrible. My bandmate and I were laughing about this. We used to do these video promos, and they're so bad and so embarrassing if you were to ever, like, dig one up.

[00:05:34] Jon Strand: But you gotta start somewhere. You gotta start somewhere.

[00:05:36] Bob Ruffolo: somewhere. Yeah. And that, that's the thing most, uh, most people think with video, um, people are just natural when it comes to video. But that's not-- Most people are not. Most people you... that are great on video today were not great when they first started. Yeah.

[00:05:50] Bob Ruffolo: And you're just like most people, and I'm, I'm the same way. I, I, I don't think I'm great on camera right now, but I've certainly have gotten better over time. I'm-- When I first [00:06:00] started, I couldn't get through a, a, a video without, "Oh, can I start over? Can I start over? Can I start over?" But the more you practice and you're like, "All right, no stop rule.

[00:06:07] Bob Ruffolo: I'm gonna just get through the entire video once, and then I'll go back and I'll redo it, and the second time it's better." And then you get into a habit of doing videos a couple times a, a week or something like that. You just get a little bit of a habit of it, and it's amazing how fast the skills build up.

[00:06:23] Bob Ruffolo: I'm sure you saw the same thing.

[00:06:24] Jon Strand: No, they do build, and then if you have the mindset that you can, then you'll make the decisions and you'll take the steps. If you have the mindset that it's not for you, you will never even start making the right decisions. Uh, but yeah, it's a skill.

[00:06:37] Jon Strand: It's, it's just like going to the gym. It's a muscle that you build over time, and then you start to do things that surprise yourself, and it starts to get really special. And it's also really fun working with a creative team where they have ideas and you start... It's almost like, like any great band is greater than the sum of its individual parts.

[00:06:57] Bob Ruffolo: an old Beatles quote.

[00:06:58] Jon Strand: Is it really? Okay. [00:07:00] Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's wild how, like, you start getting these different inputs, and then you're doing... Y- you're all having fun together and doing this thing that you're really proud of

[00:07:08] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. Um, it's also analogous to, like, a jazz band too, right? So it's, you know, um, very, very cool. So all right. So let's talk about bringing a videographer on. So it's kind of shocking hearing that you're bringing a second videographer on. A lot of people watching this is like, "Oh, can I even afford or should I be hiring a full-time person for, just for video?"

[00:07:27] Bob Ruffolo: That sounds crazy to a lot of people until they actually do it. Now you're, you've done it. Now you're bringing a second person on. But let's talk about the decision. You already talked about why you decided to bring somebody on. What was the process of bringing a videographer on for you?

[00:07:40] Jon Strand: So I stole this idea from a mentor, and we had an assignment. So I was a bit nervous because the assignment to figure out who we were gonna hire, 'cause if you post a videographer job, you get a ton of resumes. And so trying to figure out who's correct and who's gonna be a good long-term fit, [00:08:00] and it's not a, it's not one you wanna get wrong out of the gate.

[00:08:04] Jon Strand: Uh, and so the assignment, uh, the first one that I ever, uh, partook, we hired a guy, this was with a previous company, and we said, "Design a, a chocolate company." And we said, "We wanna see print ads, we wanna see video, we wanna see..." Like, the guy that ended up winning actually made chocolate, and he had all of it, it, like, had a box and had...

[00:08:27] Jon Strand: I mean, just went over the top, and it was a ton of work. And so I changed it. I didn't wanna do the chocolate company again. So for our company, we said, uh, "Do a beverage company, and I don't want you to copy our branding that's already out there. Do what you love." 'Cause I wanted to understand their taste and their aesthetic choices, and so I said, "If it needs to be '70s, go '70s.

[00:08:48] Jon Strand: If it needs to be ultra-modern, do that. But don't copy us, but make a beverage company. I wanna see, uh, two print ads. I wanna see a TikTok ad. I wanna see a YouTube Short, like a two-minute Short." Uh, and I think there was [00:09:00] one or two other things. So I know, and I felt almost bad that I'm having them do all of this.

[00:09:05] Jon Strand: Um, and this is after in-person interviews. So I did a bunch of it in person, whittled it down to four people, and then gave them this, this final big assignment that they were gonna probably have to spend 20 or 30 hours on, and it saved us so much pain. It's crazy. There, there was one kid that I really connected with, and he came over.

[00:09:25] Jon Strand: I have a recording studio, and we were geeking out about music together, and just personality-wise- Hit it off ... awesome guy. And I'm thinking, "This is the guy." And there was another guy who I really liked who's very intelligent, and I'm like, "Yeah, it... We just didn't have that vibe yet And it came down to the final two, and they turned their assignments in, and it was not even close.

[00:09:46] Jon Strand: I would've made a huge mistake with the other kid, and then the guy who I was on the fence about blew me away, had this water... I mean, we probably could go start a beverage company off of how good his branding was for this, this fake water [00:10:00] company that he came up with. And, um, his name's Cameron Reynolds, and he ended up being the biggest blessing to our company because, uh, he went all in.

[00:10:11] Jon Strand: He's hyper-intelligent. He's got all the... So now we've got him doing AI. We've got him working on a lot of back into the, the stuff with the website as well as the video content. It was funny, early on, he said, "So home improvements, y- can you guys keep me busy? Like, you're gonna have enough video?" And I said, "Cameron, we've got enough video content just in this book called Endless Customers," which by the way, here it is, you have to read it, "that, uh, you know, uh, probably for five years, and then the, uh, the, the topics in my head, I mean, probably another five years.

[00:10:42] Jon Strand: So for the next decade, I need you." And, uh, that ended up being true, which has led us to our second videographer.

[00:10:50] Bob Ruffolo: Amazing. So it's interesting that you decide to have them do a, a beverage company And not just your own company.

[00:10:57] Bob Ruffolo: I think everything else you said i- is spot on [00:11:00] to what we see. Um, you put a, a really good job posting out there. Again, a job posting for everyone is, it's marketing. It's not, you know, you're not putting a job description out there. You're trying to put something attractive so that really good people that fit that job posting actually want to go work there.

[00:11:14] Bob Ruffolo: So you write an attractive job posting. Um, you're absolutely right. Usually, if you have a lot of applicants, you'll do some sort of screening. Might be a very quick phone call, might be a video interview or like a video screening interview. Um, and I think you're right. You did interviews for personality and, and, and culture fit, probably some skill fit, but absolutely agree that you did the activity.

[00:11:35] Bob Ruffolo: We teach that too, and you did that, which is perfect. But it's interesting you picked a beverage company. Yeah. Why, why not your company and a beverage company?

[00:11:42] Jon Strand: I really was looking for taste first and foremost, and then creativity. And so I wanted to see what they could do with a, a really blank slate, and that's the most terrifying thing as an artist if you're staring at a blank canvas. It's like, "What do I paint here?" And so I knew it was gonna force them [00:12:00] to, to really flex their creative muscle and u- use their brains more than just design home improvement ads, 'cause we could always teach that, tailor that.

[00:12:09] Jon Strand: Uh, I mean, once they came on board, I have, and I highly recommend this for any business owner,

[00:12:15] Bob Ruffolo: I

[00:12:16] Jon Strand: them totally absorbed in the culture. Um, our videographers attend all of our sales meetings, or almost all of them. They attend a lot of operational meetings, and I've watched them grow in their ability to execute just, I mean, in six months' time of attending those meetings, they start to understand in a way that really, uh, you almost can't outsource.

[00:12:37] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah.

[00:12:38] Jon Strand: ' Cause they, they start understanding what are the customers' concerns, what are the, what are the, what do the sales guys need, you know? How, how does the messaging land? And if they, if they're on the outside looking in, it's really hard to connect those dots.

[00:12:54] Bob Ruffolo: All right, so now I wanna zoom back for a second.

[00:12:56] Bob Ruffolo: We'll get back in the video, but I wanna talk about you a little bit more 'cause I wanna get more of your [00:13:00] background here now.

[00:13:00] Jon Strand: Mm-hmm

[00:13:00] Bob Ruffolo: Um, at a high level, quickly, you, you've had a very successful career. Uh, for the audience, we kind of skipped over that in the beginning, but I think now is a good time to go back to that, and then we'll go back into the video.

[00:13:10] Bob Ruffolo: So, um, walk us through your journey because, you know, he's make- he's talking about his decisions that he, that John made here in terms of bringing a videographer on, and the culture, and what he was looking for, and he had very... You know, you were looking for something very specific, but that came from years of experience and judgment of you being very successful.

[00:13:29] Bob Ruffolo: So why don't you just, for the audience, let them know your background before you started, uh, LocknLadder?

[00:13:35] Jon Strand: Yeah, I'm in that whole process, like where Steve Jobs looked backwards and you start connecting dots, and you go, "Oh, that's why that happened in my life, and that's why I took this class." And so, um, like most people in college, I was a little bit lost and drifting and just trying to figure out what to do.

[00:13:51] Jon Strand: And, uh, ended up, um, I was an art school dropout, basically.

[00:13:56] Bob Ruffolo: Okay.

[00:13:57] Jon Strand: And, uh, I'd always... I worked [00:14:00] construction to pay my way through college. I'd always loved construction. I, I love building things. I also like doing hard things, like just the challenge and finding out what am I actually capable of. And so that, long story short, led me to a sales career in the home improvement space with a company that was...

[00:14:19] Jon Strand: We started in a room smaller than this, and then just it was a rocket ship. We blew up nationally. And my role with that company, I went from, from doorknocker to closer to national developer, where I was getting dropped into new cities and opening up markets. And I, I had to wear a, a plethora of hats, from finding who's gonna be the franchise o- owner, to training the sales team, to operations audits, to making sure installations were going well.

[00:14:46] Jon Strand: So quite a- Yeah,

[00:14:48] Bob Ruffolo: of experience of put- getting the right people in the right seats. Yes.

[00:14:51] Jon Strand: yes. And, um, I had a, a great mentor, the founder of that company, very dynamic, very passion-driven person, and [00:15:00] really challenged and shaped a lot of the ways I think about culture today. Culture was vital, uh, to the point where we've continued the tradition.

[00:15:08] Jon Strand: We do a Monday sales meeting where we don't talk about sales. We talk about personal development, and we talk about ethos, and we talk about... Like, my whole thing is I already know my sales guys. If, if we can become better humans and add value and virtue to ourselves, then all the rest comes into line, and homeowners align with that.

[00:15:26] Jon Strand: And so a heavy, heavy emphasis on getting the right people and the right culture.

[00:15:30] Bob Ruffolo: Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. So a- and you were very successful in that career, and that led you into starting, uh, your, your new

[00:15:37] Jon Strand: Yeah, and I should say a lot of my life decisions have been based around music and skiing. So I, I have a serious skiing addiction. I'm in the mountains as much as possible. When we opened, um, at the last company, we opened Utah and Denver, and the big joke was, you know, they only see me in the wintertime.

[00:15:55] Jon Strand: But the sales training during the winter was fantastic and, and dynamic. [00:16:00] And then,

[00:16:00] Bob Ruffolo: I assume Park City.

[00:16:02] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah.

[00:16:02] Jon Strand: City all the time. Gorgeous

[00:16:03] Bob Ruffolo: out there, yeah.

[00:16:04] Jon Strand: it out there. And then, uh, we grew to $102 million last year I was there, and then, uh, a, a larger company bought us out. And so, um, took a little time off to be in the music studio.

[00:16:18] Jon Strand: Nice. And I, I do a lot of music production. Uh, ended up on a reality TV show in Sweden. That was kind of a interesting detour. And then was kicking around. There were things that, you know, I mean, you get to a place where you're, you're aware of why things are working, and I thought there were things we could have done better and things I wish we'd offered and, uh, kinda the, "If I did it my way, I would do this."

[00:16:42] Jon Strand: And, and then I couldn't get that idea out of my head, and a big thing I was missing from being in the studio... I, I love working with music artists a- and producing, um, but I was missing the impact that happens on the job when you're structured that way. And especially, like, in a sales [00:17:00] environment where you're hiring new people that maybe are new to sales or new to the corporate workforce, like, you can change their lives and, and shape the way they think in a very healthy, positive way, and that was what happened for me.

[00:17:14] Jon Strand: I mean, when I was in college, I thought I'd be a, a starving artist, ski bum, had no outlook or, or plans, designs on success. And, um, it changed everything about my trajectory and what I believed was possible and what I thought, you know, you could achieve. And so what happened was as we're opening all these cities across the US, I fell in love with being able to impact other people.

[00:17:39] Jon Strand: That's why I love that you guys are called Impact Live. It's like part of the, the central vision of Lock and Ladder is how can we impact our, our people first and for- foremost, the communities we're in. Like, we're, we're not here for a long time, so if we're not having a positive impact, I mean, what, what are we doing?

[00:17:54] Jon Strand: It's a, it's a wasted opportunity. And so I really got addicted to watching people [00:18:00] with, like, "Do you really think I could do well at this?" to becoming these sales juggernauts to becoming leaders and pillars in the company where they're starting to go out and, and have that same impact and influence. And so the trades are such a, um, you know, th- there's just a ton of opportunity for that, and you get people, you draw in a lot of people that maybe haven't had that right career opportunity for success.

[00:18:27] Jon Strand: And to have the platform and then the personal engagement to facilitate that, um, it's, it's my favorite part of the job.

[00:18:35] Bob Ruffolo: Incredible. Incredible. And I think the, the biggest lesson there is, you know, the best work, especially when we're talking about video now and being really creative, when you have some great stories we're gonna now talk about with the videos that you've done, but it starts by having a really creative culture, um, that really gets the best out of everybody and makes sure you're getting those right people in the company and, and keeping those people in the company, too, uh, by focusing on [00:19:00] their personal growth and their opportunities and their outlets for, for being their best versions of themselves, and that shows in their work.

[00:19:06] Bob Ruffolo: So let's shift here 'cause you are an award winner, uh, for the trust and transparency in video, which we love, and congratulations. We're gonna be talking about this on stage very shortly. Um, let's go right to your most successful video. And what I'd like to do first before we talk about the video is I'd like to play, uh, a little bit of the video for the audience.

[00:19:28] Bob Ruffolo: Okay. 

[00:19:28] Jon Strand: As a roofing professional who's been in the trades for 20 years, which one would I put on my home? When I look at build quality, when I look at aesthetics and color, I prefer

[00:19:42] Jon Strand: Hey, it's John Strand with Black & Ladder, and synthetic slate tile is here to stay. We're seeing this being used all across the country on churches and universities and multi-million dollar homes. It's a fantastic solution or alternative to traditional slate. Today we're not gonna compare those two. What I wanna compare is of the [00:20:00] best of the best, what's best for you and which product should you go with?

[00:20:03] Jon Strand: And we've boiled it down after hours of researching the market to two main competitors, DaVinci Roofscapes and Brava Tile. We installed a Brava home and a DaVinci home within a week of each other. And for me, this is really important because if we're gonna put our name on any product, if we're gonna offer it a- and take on a project like that, I have to know that it's gonna represent our company well, that it's gonna reflect our core values, and that it's gonna last the duration.

[00:20:25] Jon Strand: So we're gonna compare Brava versus DaVinci, which is better, and ultimately help you figure out which is better for you. Boom. Got it. Got it. So to compare DaVinci versus Brava, there was really no better way to do this than the full dog and pony show. We're gonna run over them with our trucks. We're gonna shoot them with a bazooka.

[00:20:46] Jon Strand: And no, I'm just kidding. One disclaimer before we jump in. This is not a sponsored video. No money has exchanged hands, and neither manufacturer is going to see this video

[00:20:53] Bob Ruffolo: And we'll put the entire link to the video here in the show notes for you. Um, and I think you could see your personality come from the [00:21:00] video, which is outstanding. Uh, so, um, and obviously as you're looking at this, uh, uh, the audience, we all know if we're doing Endless Customers, that's clearly great comparison content.

[00:21:10] Bob Ruffolo: Um, and for some businesses, they might be looking at and say, "Oh, yeah, we do videos like that all the time." But let's just start here. That video did how many views up until this point?

[00:21:19] Jon Strand: So on LinkedIn, I think it's pr- approaching a million. Okay. And then on YouTube it's probably 14 or... No, it's more than that. S- 18,000. I don't know. I, my videographer would know.

[00:21:31] Bob Ruffolo: So we're talk- we're talking lots and lots of views and lots of business from this, which we'll, we'll get to here in a second as well. Um, this is probably your staple piece of content. It's become that for you. Yeah. Um, so comparison content, we know why that's so important. Um, now what I also loved about that you talked, we talked all about your culture, and right in the beginning you said, "It's really important that we are selecting products that represent our values."

[00:21:57] Bob Ruffolo: That was really cool, and then you showed your [00:22:00] values. Let's start talking about that.

[00:22:02] Jon Strand: Yeah, that's everything. I mean, our-- one of our central core tenets is expect excellence. And with the larger mission of IMPACT, I think IMPACT demands excellence, you know, unless you're gonna have bad impact. But if you're gonna have great impact, then you have to be excellent.

[00:22:17] Jon Strand: And

[00:22:17] Bob Ruffolo: our impact demands e- excellence as well, so yes. Yes. We agree with

[00:22:20] Jon Strand: much. Yes. Yeah, I've seen a very excellent presentation all the way through. And so, um, when it comes to product selection, I really like to do industry deep dives and really research as much as possible. I mean, to the point where I'll go to the factory sometimes and, and find out, like, is this product actually what we think it is?

[00:22:40] Jon Strand: Because, uh, I don't want our customers getting burned off of one of our recommendations. And so it's very, very important to me. And so that, that was sort of the premise of the whole, you know, why we're offering these products.

[00:22:53] Bob Ruffolo: Now, two different products, um, Brava and the other one was- DaVinci. DaVinci again.

[00:22:59] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. Yep. [00:23:00] Um, one company enjoyed this and the other one not so much.

[00:23:04] Jon Strand: Yeah, uh, you know, uh, maybe some of them didn't see it. Well, Brava embraced the video wholeheartedly and, and pushed it. They p- they're the ones that pushed it on LinkedIn. And, um, and then I didn't... It was kind of crickets from DaVinci. So we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they didn't see it.

[00:23:19] Jon Strand: Um, but it wa- I mean, two very different reactions. And, uh, and DaVinci did stop sending us leads, so, um, that happens.

[00:23:30] Bob Ruffolo: Now, at the end of the video, did you give a definitive like, "We would pick this company"?

[00:23:36] Jon Strand: So I tried to be as neutral and balanced as possible, and at the end I said, yeah, if, for my home... 'Cause I wanted to be honest, and for my home, it, it was Brava hands down. Um, I believe it is a superior product, uh, on... and we sort of hit the, the comparison points. I gave DaVinci credit, um, and I think there's great places, uh, f- to use that, great application.

[00:23:58] Jon Strand: You

[00:23:58] Bob Ruffolo: that in the video. Said if, if- Yes ... that [00:24:00] you meet this criteria, DaVinci would be a better product for you.

[00:24:02] Bob Ruffolo: And then tho- those would be what?

[00:24:04] Jon Strand: So that would be if you're wanting multicolor, this is specifically, they've got color nailed. So if you're wanting this really complex pattern, DaVinci's got all sorts of options there that are gonna be more cost-effective than if you're recreating the same thing with Brava.

[00:24:18] Jon Strand: And then, um, there's different reveals, so DaVinci can do a smaller reveal, so if you're wanting a more cottage-like slate style, uh, then that, that could be a good fit as well.

[00:24:28] Bob Ruffolo: So you, I mean, you didn't say anything bad about DaVinci, and it's, it's not a bad product. Uh, so I-- You actually do still represent it, and you would put it on somebody's house if they want it.

[00:24:37] Jon Strand: anymore, but

[00:24:39] Bob Ruffolo: Okay.

[00:24:40] Jon Strand: yeah.

[00:24:40] Jon Strand: Well, and so, you know, we had only done a handful of these roofs at the time. Um, since then I really, um... And we may do a follow-up video. Um, I, I do think Bravo's the superior product. I'm not afraid to say that. It's not to bad-mouth DaVinci. My hope in any video like this, like we're getting ready to do another [00:25:00] one on warranties that I think's gonna be disruptive, and it's pretty bloody, um, a- as far as roofing warranties and

[00:25:06] Bob Ruffolo: you don't care about the vendors, you care about the customers. Yeah. And if they- Yes ... want to use those vendors' products, they have to do the right job by your customers or otherwise- Yes ... you're not gonna do it. Yeah. You're not gonna use it.

[00:25:18] Bob Ruffolo: I love that. That's... We learned that from Steve Sheinkopf at Yale Appliance many, many years ago when he talked about the, the best appliances or the least serviced appliances. He didn't care about the ones that were the most serviced and the brands and what they were gonna say, even though he carried those brands.

[00:25:30] Bob Ruffolo: He said, "If you want to be not in the bottom of my list, you better do better." Yeah. And, and, and many of them did, and you're doing the same thing. So I think Marcus has always taught us to be bold and to do things and say things that others are not willing to say and do, and that's how you win, and that's why your customers love you.

[00:25:44] Jon Strand: Yeah. And we discovered that on this video. I was very scared when we released this video. Well, I was excited, and we're making it, and we have all these ideas

[00:25:52] Bob Ruffolo: you're not, then you didn't push it far enough. We

[00:25:54] Jon Strand: a 42-minute video and then condensed it. I think it's like 11 minutes, and so the editing and [00:26:00] revision took forever on this.

[00:26:01] Jon Strand: And, uh, so if you're starting, I highly recommend s- do shorts first and then go for the larger format. But, um, the day we released the video, the day after I woke up, and it was like if you've ever been drinking at a party, and then you're like, "What did I say last night?" And you have this guilt and this ba- Mm-hmm.

[00:26:19] Jon Strand: I was like, "Oh, no, I have burned two bridges," because the video wasn't completely favorable on either brand, um, especially when it came to warranties. And I was like, "I really want both of these companies to like me, and I wanna work with both of these companies and have a good relationship." And I thought, "Oh no, what have I, what have I done?

[00:26:39] Jon Strand: I've, I've ruined it." And, uh, fortunately Bravo was smart enough to realize the honesty in the video could only s- serve them and help them. And, uh, they ended up reaching out a- and the relationship got so strong. They pushed it on LinkedIn. They reached out and said it was the most [00:27:00] successful piece of marketing content that they've ever pushed, which is mind-blowing to me because they've got big New York agencies making content, and their branding is on point, and they do a fantastic job.

[00:27:11] Jon Strand: So for like little Lock N Ladder to make that video and have it be so successful, and then, um, they, uh, they're like, "Who, who are you guys?" And they wanna know us, and they're gonna fly us out to their factory and just I've had a lot of great communication with them where they're wanting to help us do better as a company on, on the sales side.

[00:27:31] Jon Strand: Amazing. It's awesome.

[00:27:33] Bob Ruffolo: Awesome. That, that reminds me a lot of my relationship with HubSpot, especially back in 2011. We actually, very similar story, um, before HubSpot had their inbound marketing graphic, uh, that, that a lot of people will know the, the methodology.

[00:27:46] Bob Ruffolo: We created an infographic that was the inbound marketing process from start to finish, and HubSpot, much like what you're doing here with this video, they loved it. They put it on their blog. They, they shared it everywhere. And, uh, and, and then that put us on their [00:28:00] radar, and they fell in love with us. And they were coaching us.

[00:28:03] Bob Ruffolo: They wanted us to do better. They wanted to do co-marketing with us together, and they actually made us like their poster child of like what a, a, a good HubSpot partner company looks like. And it, it gave us a little bit of an unfair advantage. Yeah. Sounds like you're starting to get the same thing here.

[00:28:16] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. That's incredible. Um, now this is not just a piece of content that had a lot of views. There are some real financial impact to your business from this. Let's talk about it.

[00:28:29] Jon Strand: Yeah, I mean, that, that's been also one of the, the best parts is, uh, it, it definitely has paid massive dividends. So I think today we're close to $2.2 million in revenue that we've tracked to this one video. We will get phone calls where people are like, "I watched your video. We want you to come out and bid."

[00:28:51] Jon Strand: Uh, some of those turn into Brava sales. Uh, one in particular, he called because of that video, and then he went with a metal roof. That was a better fit for him. [00:29:00] But, uh, we had a, a woman in Oklahoma call, and she wanted to fly us out to do her roof, and I said, "Well, hold on. Let's, let's put you in touch with a company out there."

[00:29:09] Jon Strand: And then, uh, I was on the phone two weeks ago with the head of Brava's, uh, contractor program, and he said, "Hey, I gotta tell you a story that you probably aren't aware of." But we had a woman who is, um, in a really upscale neighborhood out in, uh, Seattle, and he said that she was comparing DaVinci. She wanted to get another DaVinci quote and found my video, watched the video, and instantly was like, "I have to go with Brava" after watching it, and goes to her HOA.

[00:29:42] Jon Strand: And the HOA, this tells you how upscale the neighborhood, they have a, a brick-and-mortar building that's open 10:00 to 4:00 every single day.

[00:29:48] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah.

[00:29:49] Jon Strand: So she goes in, forces all of them to watch the video right there, and then every home in this neighborhood is getting Brava roofs now. Yeah. So it [00:30:00] shows you the power of the content, you know, what, what's possible.

[00:30:04] Bob Ruffolo: When you help people- Yeah ... you're not just being self-promotional.

[00:30:07] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. You're actually creating educational content that answers questions that real buyers have, that have a stake in making a good decision or a bad decision for themselves, and they don't wanna make a mistake, and they're looking for somebody to give them honest, credible answers. You come off very honest and credible.

[00:30:24] Bob Ruffolo: You, uh, you're very-- You're humble, but you're honest, and that you're probably really relatable. The way you showed up in that video is like, "We trust this guy. We like him. We, we should listen to him. You should listen to him, association," and look at what it's done for you.

[00:30:38] Jon Strand: Yeah, a- and for anybody considering video content or trying to improve the video content, the thing that is amazing about film is that, um, it, it raises your status. So you, you build all this trust and credibility, but it also, when you walk in the room and people are like, "Oh, I've s- I've seen your video."

[00:30:57] Jon Strand: And in sales, we always get taught about [00:31:00] resistance, you know? And if your status is lower, if they see you as l- a high-pressure sales guy, um, then they, they're less likely, they're gonna do this. Yeah. They're gonna

[00:31:09] Bob Ruffolo: gonna resist.

[00:31:10] Jon Strand: But when you walk in and they've seen your videos, a, a couple things happen. One, you're, you're now on their level.

[00:31:16] Jon Strand: They defer to you as the expert.

[00:31:18] Bob Ruffolo: they look up to you.

[00:31:19] Jon Strand: And, or that, and then the other

[00:31:21] Bob Ruffolo: God, the, the guy from the video is in my house right now.

[00:31:24] Bob Ruffolo: Can I make you some coffee?" Yeah. Like, "I can't believe you came out to see me."

[00:31:27] Jon Strand: Yeah. You- Right? You get

[00:31:28] Bob Ruffolo: different experience. It is. It's

[00:31:30] Jon Strand: it's pretty amazing.

[00:31:31] Bob Ruffolo: "Of course I'm gonna go with you, I just wanted to meet you." It's like, yeah.

[00:31:34] Jon Strand: Yep. We, well, and I even had that with... I don't know, I probably shouldn't say this, but one of the guys at Brava called me and he's like, "I feel like I'm talking to, you know, a movie star." But they ha- they had that perception.

[00:31:45] Jon Strand: And so there's a powerful dynamic in film itself on just people's perception of you.

[00:31:51] Bob Ruffolo: Mm.

[00:31:52] Jon Strand: Then when you provide meaningful content and you help them answer questions, and part of the reason we made that video, the guiding thing for [00:32:00] us is I had some of these questions, and we were just lucky enough to do two homes close, and, and I got those questions answered, and I could not find answers.

[00:32:10] Jon Strand: What do we recommend here? Yeah. Which do we actually like better? How are these products different? And I really was struggling to answer some of those core questions that I had just on my own knowledge base. And so we, we, we provide this meaningful thing. And, and by the way, that's a big guiding principle a- and I've got in arguments where like all the AI slop that's come out, like, is it useful?

[00:32:34] Jon Strand: You know, I don't wanna ever see on our website, "A roof is your home's most precious possess- or it protects your most precious possessions." Like, yeah, obviously, you know? And so is it... You know, I try to put myself in the client's shoes. Is this useful? Is this answering an actual question? And then we throw in, how can we do it in a creative way, you know, that's a little unique or, or true to us?

[00:32:57] Jon Strand: Like, you... and Marcus talks about this in the [00:33:00] book. You wanna be authentic. You wanna be as real as possible. And then what happens is the trust is crazy. Pun intended, it's through the roof. And so we have sales guys walk into homes, and that client's already sold. They, they... And, and what's happening is they're spending so much time...

[00:33:18] Jon Strand: I mean, think about this. If I go in as a sales guy and I tell somebody, "I need three hours with you," they're not having it. You know, they, they can't wait to throw you out of the home. And so, um, but they might spend three hours with us on YouTube,

[00:33:33] Bob Ruffolo: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:34] Jon Strand: at least the 15 minutes it took to watch that video, and then you know they're gonna click through other videos.

[00:33:40] Jon Strand: And so by the time we go out, all this value has been built in our brand and in our company. All this trust has been built. And, um, I had to cover a sales appointment for one of my guys a, a couple months ago, and the homeowner's like, "I just hope I can afford you guys." And when I showed him the price, he giggled.

[00:33:58] Jon Strand: And we were more expensive [00:34:00] than the other company, but he was like, "You're, you're so much closer than I thought. Yes," and then signed up right there. That's the power

[00:34:07] Bob Ruffolo: they know you, they like you, and they trust you. And I think even little subtle things in your video, um, like you finished the intro, and I, I think we could all guess that you probably had seven or eight takes or maybe more, and you finally got it, and you're like, "Yes!"

[00:34:22] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. And like, people get to know you a little bit, like you're fun, like you, you know, it's... That stuff matters. And I think also hearing you speak, you're, you're really making the case about why the creativity's so important because, you know, it, it's just seeing the way you guys think and work, and it just makes you more likable.

[00:34:40] Bob Ruffolo: It's just so cool.

[00:34:41] Jon Strand: Yeah. And it can get discouraging where you see all these other videos and like I, I see this. I'll see other roofing or window companies that have made great content. I'm like, "Oh, that video's already out there." But then in the back of my head I'm like, "But not the way we would say it, not with our personality, not just like me."

[00:34:57] Jon Strand: And then the other thing is [00:35:00] we look at like, what, how can we make this more useful? So I'll give you a good example. We're getting ready to do a metal, uh, roofing video on how much does metal cost. So we're following the playbook, and all the metal videos that I've seen, it's all the square foot numbers.

[00:35:13] Jon Strand: And I'm going, that doesn't tell me what a square foot... I don't know how big my roof is. How much does my roof cost or a home like mine? And so we made the video, and I realized we didn't really answer the question. And so I've delayed releasing the video. Our guys really wanted it released before we came out here today 'cause they're like, "Oh, people are gonna go look us up."

[00:35:33] Jon Strand: But no, it ha- It needs to be useful to our clients. And so we're d- gonna do this whole re-edit where we put sections of like, here's this home, here's how much this home costs. Here's a different home. Here's a barn. Here's a... And then that way they can see a real dollar amount. And then when I had that conversation, my videographer realized, oh, we can actually make a, a thing that shows in real time that's up to date on our website.

[00:35:59] Jon Strand: So we're [00:36:00] gonna use that video to send people to the website so they can get, you know, if they're watching it two years later, a very accurate idea of cost

[00:36:06] Bob Ruffolo: That's great. Amazing. All right, we're gonna get ready to wrap up here, but my last question for you is what have we not addressed for the audience? What's your biggest advice that we haven't gotten to yet?

[00:36:19] Jon Strand: Oh, man. Um, how much time do you have? No

[00:36:25] Bob Ruffolo: A little.

[00:36:26] Jon Strand: I mean, the thing is, is like I'm constantly learning. Uh, half the time I genuinely don't feel like I know what I'm doing. You know, we make videos, some of them do really well, some of them don't do well at all, and you're thinking, "Oh, that one was gonna be a hit," and it does nothing.

[00:36:40] Jon Strand: And then this one that like, I don't even know if we should release this, does really well. And so it's experimenting. It's constantly trying to learn. It's, um, letting go of fear. There's a book called Art and Fear that I read a long time ago, and it's like, get rid of fear. Just get rid of it. Like, you know, and I, I think [00:37:00] I struggle with that sometimes still in music, where I'll be afraid to release something or I'll be...

[00:37:04] Jon Strand: And it's just all, you know, j- just get that out of your head. Um, don't be afraid to try 'cause you will get better with time. Um, and then keep it fun. You know, I was talking with, uh, the DJ here, and he was asking me, he's like, "How do you, how do you keep it fresh so your guys don't get burnt out? And editing's such a bear," and they...

[00:37:25] Jon Strand: And so, um-

[00:37:26] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah, our DJ Andy, he's always got a lot of questions. He's great. He loves this

[00:37:30] Jon Strand: of the fear I had to let go of is I was like, I, I know that if you're a creative type, then corporate work can be very soul-sucking. And so maybe we need to make videos that have nothing to do with LocknLadder, but it's really fun for our guys.

[00:37:44] Jon Strand: And so periodically, you know, I mean, you've got the five main, um, buckets in Endless Customers, but there's that sixth one called other, you know? And sometimes we lean into other- Yeah ... uh, and just have fun with it, and where can we, um, inject [00:38:00] the, the joy of filmmaking? 'Cause if you have filmmakers that are, are pursuing that craft.

[00:38:05] Jon Strand: Um, and then stay true to your core vision. Um, for us, it's is it useful? Is it impactful? Is it meaningful? And then also, is it serving the client first and foremost? No,

[00:38:19] Bob Ruffolo: that's, that makes a lot of sense too because if you think about the way w- we all consume videos online, um, I mean, especially in this culture with, with short-form videos you, you're flipping through, um, when you see a creator that you resonate with, um, and it could be a, a business expert or, or whatever it is, and in your case obviously you're talking about roo- roofing and they're meeting your people.

[00:38:43] Bob Ruffolo: But then once you watch a few videos, you start liking those people and you start saying, "I wanna now get to know them a little bit more." Then you stumble on a piece of content that's like, you get to know them even further and you're like, "Wow, now I really like these people." Again, now for the fifth time this episode, I say people do business with people they know, like, and trust, and that [00:39:00] actually fits right into the model,

[00:39:01] Jon Strand: And that's, that's not going away in the AI era. Um, and then two more, two more tips. Uh, there's a book called Steal Like an Artist. It's very short. But, uh, steal and then put your own twist on it. But if you see a great video, go ahead and, and do that.

[00:39:15] Jon Strand: Don't copy it and make the exact same boring thing, 'cause that's where you, we just get all this slop. But you can put your, your brand and your, your personality in it. The other, um, thing I'll tell you is, like, if you are making a training, uh, like a sales training regimen for your, your team, put all that online.

[00:39:34] Jon Strand: So one of the, the big fear things I had to face was we used to keep our sales process so secret, and we didn't want the competition knowing what we were doing or what we were saying in the home. And I'm just letting go of all that. I'm like, "Let's serve the clients. Let's put it out there." The w- the, that, that all comes from a scarcity mindset and being afraid, like, "Oh, they're gonna get this business."

[00:39:56] Jon Strand: There's so much business out there in all of [00:40:00] our respective spaces, um, to be had, and probably more business, uh, you know, the more you lean into that. And so we're putting what typically would be reserved for sales training, I'm like, "Okay, that's a sales training video. Put it on YouTube." And we're, we're putting our pitch online.

[00:40:15] Jon Strand: We're putting our sales training online. I'm putting my sales meetings online. We have a podcast that just literally unedited you can see live, because I want people to really know us, and I'd rather err on the side of transparency. So I'd encourage people with that thought of like, just be so, so transparent.

[00:40:33] Jon Strand: Um, and then the other thing I'll tell you, this is a surprise effect, but it has helped our recruiting so much. People wanna be part of it.

[00:40:43] Bob Ruffolo: yeah. Yeah. I

[00:40:44] Jon Strand: hired a guy who I've known for years, and other companies were actively pursuing him. He's exactly who you want in the company. And, uh,

[00:40:55] Bob Ruffolo: wanna work for you 'cause you're cool.

[00:40:57] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah.

[00:40:57] Jon Strand: yeah. He wants to be part of it, and he's been engaged with our [00:41:00] content for two years now, and that was one of the things he said. He's like, "I had to come and hear from you about your company because the content seems am- you know, it, it's amazing, and I, I wanna be part of something." And, uh, I think it was a key factor, one, in getting him in the door, and then two, him deciding to, to work with Lock and Ladder

[00:41:19] Bob Ruffolo: Incredible. And just, uh, going back to what you said to the, um, the in-home appointments and showing that and being honest, that's going to make your customers feel so much more comfortable, okay? I saw what they do when they go into the r- the, the house, and there's als- almost a little challenge too. Like, now I'm gonna go book this appointment.

[00:41:36] Bob Ruffolo: I think I know what they're gonna expect, but let's see if they actually do it the way they did it in the video. And then when you do, even more trust, and now they, they tru- yeah, so that's incredible. 

[00:41:46] Jon Strand: 

[00:41:46] Bob Ruffolo: Well, John, we are incredibly proud of you. You should be very proud of the company you're building and the work that you're doing, and, uh, we're very proud to have you as our award winner for, uh, Trust In Video.

[00:41:55] Jon Strand: Thank you. It's, it's incredible to be here. It's r- really, I'm still trying to wrap my head [00:42:00] around reading this book, going all in, and then here we are getting the award from you guys, uh, for doing it. So, like, thank you for having me, and thank you for, um, hooking us up with the award.

[00:42:12] Bob Ruffolo: it's well, well deserved, and thanks also for being on the podcast today.

[00:42:16] Jon Strand: It was great.

[00:42:17] Bob Ruffolo: All right. Well, from Endless Customers Live here in Hartford, Connecticut, this has been another episode of the Endless Customers Podcast. We will see you at the next episode 

[00:42:25] Stephanie Baiocchi: If you liked this episode, please take a minute to leave us a review. Thanks for checking out the Endless Customers Podcast.