How a CPA Firm Doubled Inbound Deals Without Cold Calling [Endless Customers Podcast Ep. 190]

This transcript has been generated by AI and not checked for accuracy. 

[00:00:00] Bob Ruffolo (5): And, um, and don't worry that this started recording. We, we obviously crop it.

[00:00:03] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, yeah

[00:00:05] Bob Ruffolo (5): yeah, no, it was good. It was, uh, probably about 300 people in Hartford. So yeah, it was, it was great. Um

[00:00:12] Tyler Thompson: now I've been to a few of those. I wasn't able to go to that one. Uh, is 300 about to what I saw in Chicago and Hartford last year?

[00:00:22] Bob Ruffolo (5): Uh, comparable to Hartford last year.

[00:00:24] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, okay

[00:00:25] Bob Ruffolo (5): would say, um, Chicago is definitely larger.

[00:00:28] Tyler Thompson: Okay.

[00:00:28] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah, just a little easier,

[00:00:30] Tyler Thompson: it's a little more central, I guess.

[00:00:31] Bob Ruffolo (5): easier to get to, for sure.

[00:00:33] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:00:35] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah, good. But your, your team's doing an amazing job

[00:00:38] Tyler Thompson: I agree, Bob. Uh, I agree 100%. Uh, they were, they were there in Hartford a couple weeks ago. I don't know, was it last month? It was earlier this

[00:00:48] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:00:48] Tyler Thompson: Two

[00:00:49] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. Yeah. It was really only, only three weeks ago

[00:00:52] Tyler Thompson: They like to go for the, um... What's the place? The, uh, pizza place. Oh, [00:01:00] Sally's. Sally's. They're there. They're just there for Sally's, not for you. They're not there for you, Bob.

[00:01:05] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, a- and that's a little bit of a trip. You guys have to go down, what? About 40 minutes down 91?

[00:01:10] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, I guess so. And then

[00:01:11] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:01:12] Tyler Thompson: one we did when I was there? We did two and they-- Yeah.

[00:01:15] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:01:16] Tyler Thompson: Come

[00:01:16] Bob Ruffolo (5): Pep- Pepe's, Sally's.

[00:01:18] Tyler Thompson: that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:01:19] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:01:20] Tyler Thompson: Yeah.

[00:01:21] Bob Ruffolo (5): You guys really like the New Haven pizza that much?

[00:01:24] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, I mean, uh, yeah.

[00:01:29] Bob Ruffolo (5): See, I,

[00:01:29] Tyler Thompson: like any, every, all pizza I like that much,

[00:01:32] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. Yes, yeah. Now, I'm originally from, um, Long Island.

[00:01:36] Tyler Thompson: Okay

[00:01:37] Bob Ruffolo (5): family moved up to Connecticut, so I, I grew up in Connecticut m- most of my life. But I never liked New Haven pizza. I mean, I'll eat it, um, but I think New York pizza's so much better.

[00:01:46] Tyler Thompson: Okay.

[00:01:47] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:01:49] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, uh, we have Chicago style and Detroit style pizza here, and I love both of those. I am sure I would love me some, uh, New York pizza as well.

[00:01:58] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. Yeah, well, hi.[00:02:00] 

[00:02:00] Tyler Thompson: pieces, right?

[00:02:01] Bob Ruffolo (5): Well, you know what we should do at one of these events, dude? Just like a, a, a pizza tasting where you have a New Haven pizza, a New York pizza, a Chicago, a Detroit, and then just like let people vote.

[00:02:12] Tyler Thompson: Right, right. It might travel better from New Haven than it would from Detroit,

[00:02:17] Bob Ruffolo (5): That's true.

[00:02:18] Tyler Thompson: uh,

[00:02:20] Bob Ruffolo (5): Cool. All right, well, um, so this is very natural. It's gonna... It's like a conversation like we're having right now. Um, obviously you can see I'm looking at the TV. That's where you are here. Um, cameras all around, but I know you're right in front of me. Um, it's obviously not live. We can cut. You can re-say things if you want.

[00:02:37] Bob Ruffolo (5): Most of the times we don't have to, we just go straight through.

[00:02:40] Tyler Thompson: Okay

[00:02:41] Bob Ruffolo (5): you, you got the brief. Um, now actually you're... We're doing two, uh, videos today. Um, and I appreciate you sending all the information over. So this will be the first time we're, we're doing a new case study in our, our new format. So you'll be our first one, so I really do appreciate you participating in that, so thank you

[00:02:59] Tyler Thompson: set a [00:03:00] good, we'll set the bar high here, Bob, for all the people who come after us

[00:03:04] Bob Ruffolo (5): Sounds good. Yeah, and so if we, we fumbled through that one a little bit. It's our first one. Um, so the, uh, first episode we'll do is our-

[00:03:16] Tyler Thompson: Marcos. Thank you

[00:03:18] Bob Ruffolo (5): Uh, the first one we'll do is a normal, uh, Endless Customers episode. It'll be similar to what we're, we'll do for the success story. This one's more about your journey going through Endless Customers.

[00:03:27] Tyler Thompson: Yeah.

[00:03:28] Bob Ruffolo (5): so we got some questions here and, uh,

[00:03:30] Tyler Thompson: I've

[00:03:30] Bob Ruffolo (5): go, we'll

[00:03:31] Tyler Thompson: I saw the six questions. I've prepared a little bit here, so

[00:03:35] Bob Ruffolo (5): Oh, perfect.

[00:03:36] Tyler Thompson: I think I'm ready

[00:03:37] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah, so we'll go through that, and then the other one's gonna be a little bit more specific to our services. So just how we worked with you guys, and of course, it's all about what you've accomplished, and that'll be a shorter video. Um, and we'll, we'll cut that down to probably about a five-minute video

[00:03:50] Tyler Thompson: Are you gonna be up here or are you going downstairs? I'll go down, but if something happens, just text me. Okay. Just tell them to pause and Okay. You can probably leave that open if you want. [00:04:00] Okay. All right. Thanks, Marcos. Mm-hmm. Okay. Sorry, Bob. Go ahead

[00:04:04] Bob Ruffolo (5): Oh, no, no problem. No problem. So, um, yeah, that's, that's really it. We'll, we'll jump here in a second and, um, let me see something here

[00:04:14] Tyler Thompson: So the Endless Customers episode first and then the case study thing

[00:04:20] Bob Ruffolo (5): Exactly.

[00:04:21] Tyler Thompson: after. All right, sounds good. I'm gonna get my laptop open here in case I wanna look at something

[00:04:29] Bob Ruffolo (5): And you go by founder and president, correct?

[00:04:31] Tyler Thompson: Right. Right.

[00:04:32] Bob Ruffolo (5): Cool

[00:04:33] Tyler Thompson: Uh, I don't like the title CEO, um, a little bit like you. I also don't like the word blog. So you and I are, I was very appreciative of a, a couple episodes ago, you kinda went on a little bit of a rant about that, and I was standing up cheering for you

[00:04:53] Bob Ruffolo (5): Oh, wow. That, that's what s- uh, stood out. Okay.

[00:04:56] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:04:57] Bob Ruffolo (5): I've always just had, I've always just had a weird thing against [00:05:00] the word blog. I don't know.

[00:05:01] Tyler Thompson: it's a dumb word.

[00:05:02] Bob Ruffolo (5): It is. It is.

[00:05:03] Tyler Thompson: a

[00:05:03] Bob Ruffolo (5): We're writing articles to educate.

[00:05:08] Tyler Thompson: I don't, I don't... Yeah. So, uh, all right. Yeah, I'm ready to go

[00:05:12] Bob Ruffolo (5): All right, John, you ready?

[00:05:16] Bob Ruffolo (5): And I'm just gonna go right into the episode 'cause as you know, we do the whole intro after.

[00:05:21] Tyler Thompson: Do you want me to talk a little bit about us at the begi- like, what, what do you want from me? Are you gonna go right into a question or...

[00:05:29] Bob Ruffolo (5): go, I'll go right into a question. Um, for those that don't know, quickly, um, tell us about TMA Accounting. Yeah We got some lights being adjusted here and ready to rock and roll

[00:05:58] Bob Ruffolo (5): We are changing [00:06:00] colors Oh, really? What happened?

[00:06:08] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. Okay

[00:06:12] Bob Ruffolo (5): We're good? And welcome back to the Endless Customers Podcast. Great episode coming at you today. We've got Tyler Thompson, the founder and president of TMA Accounting. Tyler, welcome to the episode

[00:06:26] Tyler Thompson: Thank you very much, Bob

[00:06:28] Bob Ruffolo (5): Well, we're so excited to have you here because TMA Accounting, for anyone in the Endless Customers community, has to be aware of the work that you guys are doing.

[00:06:36] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, you truly have become the most known, trusted, and recommended company in your space. Obviously, an accounting practice, but Tyler, quickly tell us, um, about TMA Accounting, um, what you guys do and where you, where you specialize.

[00:06:48] Tyler Thompson: Sure. Thank you. Uh, um, thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be here with you. I'm a big believer in Endless customers and, uh, look forward to, uh, sharing our experience with it. [00:07:00] Uh, TMA Accounting is a Indiana-based, uh, CPA firm that I started in the year 2000, so a little more than 25 years ago. Um, now, Bob, I know you are a business owner,

[00:07:15] Bob Ruffolo (5): Mm-hmm. Yep

[00:07:17] Tyler Thompson: you know that managing the financial side of a business is not easy and can sometimes feel like a endless stream of sort of hassles and surprises. Uh, we have made our life's work to solve that problem for small businesses. Uh, we work with about 350 businesses, uh, in the area every month and, um- So we're helping them go from using sort of a disconnected patchwork of service providers to a little bit more connected [00:08:00] solution that's a lot better communication and hopefully fewer hassles and surprises

[00:08:06] Bob Ruffolo (5): You know, a- and, and one of the things I, I've learned as a business owner, g- going off of that, um, you know, I started as a marketing person, right? So when I started IMPACT, uh, it was a web design company, and I loved building websites. I loved design. I loved working with small businesses. I knew nothing about running a business, which is probably like most small business own- owners out there.

[00:08:28] Bob Ruffolo (5): And all of a sudden it's like, "Oh yeah, I probably should have a QuickBooks." And, and you hack your way through that a little bit. Um, a- and you know, I think it's great having a company like you guiding businesses through the process, which many people probably do, but I think where you guys are really special is it's not just doing it for them.

[00:08:48] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, I've learned over the years you can't just outsource anything in your business without knowing enough about it, and you guys have such a huge, um, um, emphasis on education. [00:09:00] Because you have a smart business owner that knows how to financially ma- manage their business. Even though you might be doing a lot of the work for them, but they understand why you're doing what you're doing, and it's incredibly important.

[00:09:10] Bob Ruffolo (5): That happens before they even start working with you.

[00:09:13] Tyler Thompson: Absolutely. Uh, you know, we do our best work when our client is super engaged with us and we're working together like a team. Uh, it can be really, really great. Uh, you know, we think of ourself as sort of the third option where, you know, you could have a payroll company and a bookkeeper and a tax accountant, you can grow big enough to where you can hire a CFO and a controller and some, uh, clerks. know, there really isn't a very good middle option there, and that's really the need

[00:09:44] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:09:45] Tyler Thompson: to, uh, serve

[00:09:47] Bob Ruffolo (5): Amazing. Amazing. So we wanna hear all about your journey. So you've been doing Endless Customers here for, for a little while, but let's start even before that. Um, you started in 2000. Uh, and what was your journey up until [00:10:00] the point where, say, you discovered Endless Customers? How was the business growing?

[00:10:04] Bob Ruffolo (5): What were your challenges, and what were you trying to change when you started doing Endless Customers?

[00:10:08] Tyler Thompson: Sure, sure. So, um, I knew pretty early on I wanted to be a resource for small businesses, so that focus a little bit unique. Typically, CPAs like me decide that bigger clients are better than smaller clients. Um, I took a little bit of a flyer and went the other way with it.

[00:10:30] Bob Ruffolo (5): Love that

[00:10:32] Tyler Thompson: you know, that was early two thousands. Um, I met some, uh, other accounting firm owners who were doing a really crazy thing, and that is they're trying to actually run a sales function their, on their own team. Accounting and sales doesn't really go together. You'd be surprised, maybe very few accounting firms actually have salespeople. It's typically, know, the partner is the [00:11:00] rainmaker, and it all flows down from there.

[00:11:01] Bob Ruffolo (5): Mm-hmm.

[00:11:02] Tyler Thompson: Um, so that approach is a little bit different. We had a l-lot of success with that over the first couple decades. used to do lots and lots of prospecting activity with sales, telephone, email, door knocking, all of it, and that was reasonably effective, uh, for us for a long time. Um, but that gets harder and harder as people become more disconnected and, and it's a more digital world. So, you know, th-the thought had was that, uh, we need to be doing this more digitally. Uh, and so I, uh, actually had a chance to meet Marcus a couple times through an association that I'm involved with, saw him speak a couple times, read the book, and it just was sorta worming into my brain over the last few years.

[00:11:54] Tyler Thompson: And I put two and two together and say, "Okay, this could be the replacement [00:12:00] for a lot of this outbound sales activity we had been doing in the past."

[00:12:04] Bob Ruffolo (5): Oh, wow

[00:12:05] Tyler Thompson: so in December of '24, I sort of, uh, said, "All right, if I'm gonna do this, I wanna learn as much about it as possible." So I spent the entire month of December watching all of the content on the Impact Plus platform, how to hire a videographer from running the ad to doing the inter- you know, all of it. Uh, and I said, "Okay, let's go.

[00:12:30] Bob Ruffolo (5): Amazing.

[00:12:31] Tyler Thompson: do it."

[00:12:32] Bob Ruffolo (5): Amazing. So, you know, it makes a lot of sense. So, um, the outbound sales activities for a lot of businesses, um, it's getting harder and harder for businesses to break through. I mean, especially right now with AI and as people are automating their prospecting processes. I don't know about you. My- myself, I get probably over 100 emails a day.

[00:12:54] Bob Ruffolo (5): And that, and I'm already filtering out a ton. They still get through my inbox, and I just can't pay attention to [00:13:00] that. Um, if, if people can call me, I can recognize it on my phone easily. Now I have things that are blocking things, still, like, things get through. I just get annoyed. I get frustrated. I get text messages from accounting firms too.

[00:13:10] Bob Ruffolo (5): Like, "Hey, we, we could do..." It's so annoying. So you're smart to say, "Okay, these outbound tactics are not working." And, um, you know, digital is important. Um, but there's still a lot of digital noise that's out there. Um, and, and obviously the principles behind Endless Customers are about trust.

[00:13:28] Tyler Thompson: Right

[00:13:29] Bob Ruffolo (5): you position yourself to be the company that your potential buyers look to, want to do business with, want to learn form, from, can see themselves working with.

[00:13:40] Bob Ruffolo (5): And by the time they say, "Hey, listen, we have to go and outsource this or work with a company," um, there's only one company we really want to work with. And I think that's one of the things you've done really well as well.

[00:13:51] Tyler Thompson: Yeah. Well, we're, we're trying. I, I agree. Uh, it makes a ton of sense, especially in a B2B [00:14:00] advisory type business that w- we're in, that trust is really the, the, the main thing. w- you know, so which is why the, uh, TAYA Endless Customer stuff really, uh, landed with me, made

[00:14:17] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. And we're gonna go into this in a little bit, but the other thing you were saying too is that you made the strategic decision to continue working with small businesses.

[00:14:24] Tyler Thompson: Yeah

[00:14:24] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, and I love that. And I said that I love that because we have too. Um, we know exactly what our ICP is, our ideal customer profile.

[00:14:33] Bob Ruffolo (5): It's a business of a certain size, usually around $2 million on the small side. It can go up to 50, 100 million. We might have some companies that are outside that range, but that's like our sweet spot. Um, we know when we grow our business, we don't wanna grow and say, "Oh, we- we'll go get a couple of whales," 'cause I feel like that'd be very disruptive.

[00:14:50] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, we said let's, let's do what we do really well and help as many people as we possibly can. So we have a very sh- shared vision, uh, uh, our two companies, which I love

[00:14:58] Tyler Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and, you [00:15:00] know, we feel like, uh, the best way to use our skills and talent as accountants is to help s- help small businesses. Those are the ones that need it, and, uh, so we feel really good about it

[00:15:13] Bob Ruffolo (5): So you read the books, you went to the conferences, you, you saw Marcus, uh, you said, "Okay, I'm gonna- going to do this." Um, now obviously we started working together, um, but you obviously were bought in. Uh, we did an Alignment Day, um, and, and, uh, and then we went through the entire journey. So, um, from your perspective, the, the onboarding and, and getting everyone bought in, um, obviously we told you that was important, but you knew that was important.

[00:15:39] Bob Ruffolo (5): But how was that process of getting everybody bought in, say, "Okay, this is our strategy for going to market. This is how we're all going to, to be on the same page for sales and marketing moving forward"? What was that like for you?

[00:15:51] Tyler Thompson: Um, I, I mean, you guys made it pretty easy. Uh, the Alignment Day approach made a lot of sense to me. I have a good friend who had gone through, [00:16:00] started working with you guys a year before. think maybe he wasn't as intentional about that as he should've been, and he said, "Hey, don't do it like I did it, Tyler."

[00:16:10] Tyler Thompson: So I said, "Okay. All right. I'll pay attention and try to be a good student." And, uh, uh, felt like it was a big, bold, uh, pretty fairly significant investment. I didn't wanna screw it up, so we were paying a lot of attention

[00:16:27] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. You know, it's so funny too. I li- I like to tell people, um, you know, when- whenever you're starting a new initiative, or you've probably seen this too, when people start jobs, the best time to train them is right in the beginning because that's when people are sponges.

[00:16:40] Tyler Thompson: Yeah,

[00:16:41] Bob Ruffolo (5): they can absorb so much in the beginning.

[00:16:43] Bob Ruffolo (5): If you try to retrain later, and you have to have the retrainings going on, but if you don't kick it off the right way, like you don't kick off an employee engagement, like you have a new employee, you don't kick them off the right way, it's much harder to get them bought in later on

[00:16:56] Tyler Thompson: Yeah. I, I agree. And, you know, [00:17:00] your approach, IMPACT's approach with us, uh, we're, we're about 18 months in, Bob, uh, w- with working with you guys. Our... I was talking to our, Jacob, our content manager yesterday or the day before, uh, you know, he made the observation that, know, we're kind of figuring out messaging now, like, what do we have to say?

[00:17:26] Tyler Thompson: Because I, and I agree with this approach, you know, we spent the first year really learn how to, learning how to build systems and processes to produce content. And I think, uh, starting there makes a lot of sense versus, "Hey, let's figure out everything we should be saying before we learn how to make content." I think that's put us in a better position, uh, to go forward

[00:17:53] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah, and I mean, I think you guys probably already had a good foundation. Um, one of the, the, uh, uh ... I know your team was [00:18:00] at our, uh, our conference in Hartford a few weeks ago.

[00:18:03] Tyler Thompson: Yep

[00:18:04] Bob Ruffolo (5): was around building a business worth choosing. Um, and that means having a focus and saying, "We're going to be the best for this audience even if we're, you know, not gonna be the best for all audiences."

[00:18:16] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, and then being able to narrow that down and say, "What are we going to be the best at? What does this audience need from us? And, and what are the few things that they, they need the most from us? And we're gonna be excellent at that,

[00:18:27] Tyler Thompson: Yeah

[00:18:27] Bob Ruffolo (5): it means we're gonna be so-so at other things.

[00:18:30] Tyler Thompson: Yeah

[00:18:31] Bob Ruffolo (5): this is what matters most to them.

[00:18:32] Bob Ruffolo (5): And then we're gonna operationalize the business to make sure we are just great at those handful of things that matter the most." Um, and then we're gonna make a promise around that. We're gonna back up our claims, and we're gonna make sure we protect that. That was the whole talk around building a business worth choosing.

[00:18:47] Bob Ruffolo (5): So I think that's probably what your team came back and said, "Let's get our messaging right." But you guys have always had that. It's just maybe how we bring that more to the forefront of what we're saying in our content.

[00:18:56] Tyler Thompson: You know what I think? I think with [00:19:00] Different types of businesses, there's going to be different solutions to that problem. Um, you know... Uh, I think I lost my train of thought a little

[00:19:15] Bob Ruffolo (5): Are you okay? Take your time

[00:19:16] Tyler Thompson: Um

[00:19:19] Bob Ruffolo (5): No, no worries at all

[00:19:20] Tyler Thompson: we're really trying to figure out how does our conversion work? What, do we need to be doing at the top of the funnel, in the middle of the funnel, and at the bottom of the funnel? know, I don't think you're gonna figure all that out in the first quarter or two.

[00:19:34] Bob Ruffolo (5): No, no

[00:19:35] Tyler Thompson: look at this as a long-term play, and, uh, I, I really like your approach of learn how to be a media company first.

[00:19:46] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:19:46] Tyler Thompson: that was the right first move

[00:19:49] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah, and, and you guys did that really well too. And, um, so, so when we kicked off, we did Alignment Day. And for those that are listening that don't know what that is, that's when we, uh ... One of our coaches, I believe it was Allison, right, that, [00:20:00] that came in?

[00:20:00] Tyler Thompson: uh, Chris Dupre.

[00:20:02] Bob Ruffolo (5): Oh, DuPre went to you guys. Okay. So Chris DuPre went in, and, uh, he trained your team.

[00:20:07] Bob Ruffolo (5): So it's let's get everyone on the same page. We're going to lead with trust. Uh, we have to address these topics because these are the topics that build trust. We cover the big five. We talk about we have to have people in certain roles, and whether you had them at that time or not, we'll go into that in a minute.

[00:20:22] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, but we're gon- we're going to invest in these roles, and we have to make sure that everyone else in the firm acts as a subject matter expert. Y- whether you're in sales, service, you're an accountant, you have knowledge that we need to bring to the world, and these two peoples, it's their job to bring your insights and bring you to the world so people can fall in love with you and trust you.

[00:20:41] Bob Ruffolo (5): So we get everyone on the same page and say, "Okay, we all agree this is the way we're moving forward as a company," and that's what Alignment Day is. And then we build our first 90-day roadmap and say, "Okay, we're here, and what's our first big push we want to do, and where do we want to be at the end of 90 days?"

[00:20:55] Bob Ruffolo (5): For some companies, that's we want to have a content manager and videographer staff. We want to get [00:21:00] our first handful of big five articles out, which I think is what you're talking to. You're getting the systems in place. We're learning how to do this. Other companies may already have those positions.

[00:21:08] Bob Ruffolo (5): They're gonna do a different push in their first 90 days. Sometimes that involves a website update. So that's really what the f- the first period looks like. So,

[00:21:16] Tyler Thompson: The--

[00:21:16] Bob Ruffolo (5): we did

[00:21:17] Tyler Thompson: Day was the coach came in, we rented a, uh, room so we could lunch for all-- We have about thirty employees, so we need a big room to get them

[00:21:26] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:21:27] Tyler Thompson: Uh, bought lunch and, uh, uh, fussed over them a little bit, tried to make a big deal about this as being a, a, a shift in how we're operating and get people excited. The coach was, was, uh, very helpful to help us get people excited and get their heads around what does this change uh, for us. And, uh, yeah, then just like you said, we just got busy making content, not too worried about how good it was or how relevant it was to anything, but just trying to get our [00:22:00] content manager and videographer comfortable with the process.

[00:22:05] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:22:06] Tyler Thompson: that's where the other coaches, uh, we worked with, uh, John, Becker for the most part, uh, you know, super, super helpful. Now, John has a gift for teaching and, uh, and a gift, I will say he's, he's a double threat. Uh, also a gift for the content side of things, really helped our-- 'Cause I've-- my guys are young guys, you know, they're in their late twenties. know nothing about accounting, uh, and neither does Becker really. Don't tell him I said that. But, uh, he, he really helped them focus on what was important, focus on the customer, focus on the voice, you know, how we're approaching these topics, everything. I mean, there really was no bad content. All of it just looked good from day one

[00:22:57] Bob Ruffolo (5): So, um, two things. [00:23:00] Uh, so one, and I wanna come back to this, we'll come back to this in a second, which is why you felt having a coach do Alignment Day was better than you just trying to do it on your own. But before we get to that question, um When we think about having a content manager and a videographer, we get this question a lot, shouldn't they have industry experience?

[00:23:23] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, and your coach has some, but not a lot. He doesn't know anywhere near what you know about, about accounting, never will.

[00:23:30] Tyler Thompson: Sa- same amount that I know about marketing.

[00:23:33] Bob Ruffolo (5): and, and, and your content manager and your videographer, especially when they started, uh, probably knew very little about accounting. Um, they probably know a lot more now.

[00:23:42] Tyler Thompson: Yeah

[00:23:43] Bob Ruffolo (5): so do you see that actually being a benefit in- inverse being something that would hurt you guys?

[00:23:50] Tyler Thompson: Um, you know, what I will say is one of the challenges we've had is how do we support those guys [00:24:00] properly? Because the worst thing I could do to them is say, "Hey, you know, I know you don't know anything about accounting, but go ahead and make a bunch of content about it anyway." Uh, that is not gonna be a winning strategy. So, you know, we've gotta reserve and/or allocate resources on our professional teams, uh, to be able to ideate, uh, beat up these ideas, do outlines,

[00:24:32] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yep

[00:24:33] Tyler Thompson: SMEs, and that's a, that's a process that we've embraced and... But it is challenging because

[00:24:39] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:24:39] Tyler Thompson: to serve and, uh, deadlines to meet with other stuff

[00:24:44] Bob Ruffolo (5): But to your credit, you made that a priority and said, "Hey, you have to make yourself available for them. Um, it's part of your job to, to make sure that these two individuals have access to you

[00:24:55] Tyler Thompson: for sure. And, you know, uh, they made it real easy that, uh, [00:25:00] they're all having fun with this stuff. You

[00:25:02] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:25:02] Tyler Thompson: they're into it. So, you know, and I think maybe an intangible benefit from this, Bob, is, you know, when you make big moves or big bold moves, that gets people excited. Um, uh, teams want to do bold things, and, uh, so that's been super satisfying. Kind of has given us a little bit of mojo 'cause we're doing something that nobody else is doing. Now in the

[00:25:29] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:25:30] Tyler Thompson: space, the bar's kind of low when it

[00:25:33] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:25:34] Tyler Thompson: okay? So

[00:25:35] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:25:35] Tyler Thompson: fortunate I'm not competing against marketing geniuses. I'm, I'm competing against accountants in,

[00:25:42] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:25:42] Tyler Thompson: so

[00:25:43] Bob Ruffolo (5): You know, and, and, you know, one of the, the benefits of having somebody, uh, in the co- content manager seat and the videographer seat that's not from the industry is that they think more like your buyer, who is also not in the industry. [00:26:00] So you have the curse of knowledge. Your staff, your, your SMEs have this curse of knowledge, and they say things in certain terms and, and it's inside industry jargon that you guys just are used to, to saying.

[00:26:12] Bob Ruffolo (5): But your content manager's like, "I don't know what that means. I- uh, explain it to me." And then they take your explanation, and they put it in the content and explain it in easy-to-understand terms

[00:26:23] Tyler Thompson: Right

[00:26:24] Bob Ruffolo (5): is like, "Oh, now I understand why this is important. I understand this compliance thing or this tax thing or this thing that I never even heard before."

[00:26:31] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, they might not even know what a 1099 form is, right? And it's like you, you... when your, your content managers don't understand it and your au- your, your customers who are starting businesses for the first time, they don't understand it,

[00:26:40] Tyler Thompson: Right

[00:26:41] Bob Ruffolo (5): that all that simple, that's actually the, the benefit of having somebody not from the industry.

[00:26:45] Bob Ruffolo (5): 'Cause if you are ... have somebody from the industry, it's gonna sound like inside jargon in the content, and we've seen that actually work the opposite.

[00:26:52] Tyler Thompson: we really wanna stay away from that. That is not, that is not how you become, uh, approachable and trusted, uh,

[00:26:59] Bob Ruffolo (5): [00:27:00] Yeah

[00:27:00] Tyler Thompson: a lot of technical jargon, so we try to stay a way away from that. One of the things we've done to help them with that is created a messaging guide with a full glossary of you know, most of the technical terms that we use, uh, so that they can learn and get better day by day with that stuff

[00:27:22] Bob Ruffolo (5): Now, did you provide that to them or did you have them build it themselves?

[00:27:27] Tyler Thompson: Uh, uh, I provided it. So I

[00:27:30] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:27:30] Tyler Thompson: the time to say, "Okay, here are the things

[00:27:32] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:27:33] Tyler Thompson: us needing to understand better that will help these guys do their jobs better."

[00:27:39] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. Very cool. Let's go back to Alignment Day.

[00:27:43] Tyler Thompson: Sure

[00:27:43] Bob Ruffolo (5): so obviously Chris came in, he ran the Alignment Day for your team. Uh, Chris can be like a drill sergeant. We know how he is.

[00:27:51] Tyler Thompson: Sort of, yeah

[00:27:52] Bob Ruffolo (5): but so, whi- which is great, but so did you find a difference between when you roll out an initiative in your company [00:28:00] and you're the one rolling it out versus having somebody from the outside come in and say the same things that you would say, but because they're different it's, it hits different?

[00:28:09] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, I, I think it comes down to, uh, for me, the, the alignment day and having the coach come in, made sense because that's not my area of expertise, and I don't wanna get up in front of 30 employees and say, "Hey, we're gonna do this big, bold thing," and I'm not really sure how this is gonna work, you know?

[00:28:31] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:28:32] Tyler Thompson: uh, so it made total sense, and, um, were ready to hear that message anyway 'cause I think a lot of people see YouTube as being a very effective search engine and, uh, uh, know that if we want to expand our digital presence in the world, it's gonna involve, uh, YouTube. So we spent a lot of time talking about that and what that would look like and [00:29:00] how

[00:29:00] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:29:01] Tyler Thompson: uh, work over time

[00:29:04] Bob Ruffolo (5): Now, one of the things that we always showcase you and your team for, um, and you've done this probably better than anyone else, is your website is so crystal clear who you're a fit for and who you're not a fit for and why, um, so much that AI just loves, uh, how you did it and will recommend you when you are a good fit and won't recommend you when you're not a good fit.

[00:29:32] Bob Ruffolo (5): Can you talk about how that all came to be? Obviously, you, you already laid out your vision of, like, we know who our audience is and who we're, we're serving, but how did that get into your content? Can you, can you share some insights into that?

[00:29:45] Tyler Thompson: Uh, y- you know, I think, I think that may go back to some of what's in your IMPACT Plus platform I picked up on early, is that, uh, we, we really want the, the [00:30:00] viewer or the reader to recognize that they're in the right spot. And so specificity of what we can help with, is super important. Um, I think if you look a lot of accounting firm websites, uh, you read what they do, and it sounds like they do everything. and, and my website was like that for a long time. You know, we do this. We're, we're able to do all these things, but I think until you get real specific about what you want to do and who you're focused on, it's a little tougher

[00:30:35] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. And there

[00:30:38] Tyler Thompson: Brown, uh, and, uh, John Becker both helped us with that to, to get real specific about who we're not a fit for. We probably got two sp- I think, I think on our main page there's like 30 points of who we don't wanna work with.

[00:30:52] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:30:52] Tyler Thompson: that back a little bit

[00:30:54] Bob Ruffolo (5): Well, I, I know. I mean, do not call him if you're a manufacturing company. They do not work with manufacturers, [00:31:00] but if you're a restaurant,

[00:31:01] Tyler Thompson: Yeah,

[00:31:01] Bob Ruffolo (5): you'd be perfect for them.

[00:31:02] Tyler Thompson: Right

[00:31:03] Bob Ruffolo (5): so I have that memorized. I, it's part of my talk.

[00:31:06] Tyler Thompson: Nicely done

[00:31:08] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, very cool. Now, you mentioned YouTube. Your YouTube growth is outstanding. So you started, um, and you had zero subscribers, and today you-

[00:31:18] Tyler Thompson: New channel in, uh, March of '25, I think, so about 18 months

[00:31:24] Bob Ruffolo (5): And you now have over 11,000 subscribers. That's outstanding. Congratulations.

[00:31:29] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, crazy

[00:31:31] Bob Ruffolo (5): Now, um

[00:31:36] Bob Ruffolo (5): Tell me about, so your, your videographer's leading this charge, uh, obviously with your YouTube growth. Um, I always like to say that the magic in making Endless Customers work is the quality of the two people you get in the content manager and the videographer seat.

[00:31:52] Tyler Thompson: Agreed

[00:31:53] Bob Ruffolo (5): yeah, share, share what they do, how you empower them, um, and why you think they're so passionate to just [00:32:00] make these numbers move for you

[00:32:01] Tyler Thompson: Uh, yeah. So the way we're organized is, uh, I am for the last 18 months, I've been sort of serving the, the firm as the director of marketing. so the three of us, along with our salesperson, we do a cadence. Uh, we run on EOS. That team also runs on EOS. we do content meeting every Monday morning, and we do a, a team, revenue team meeting every other Monday morning. and it's just a lot of spitballing and, "Hey, let's try this and let's try that." Uh, Marcos, our videographer, and Jacob, our content manager, together extremely well. We're just... I don't wanna say got lucky hiring those guys. little bit of it's luck, but, um, we paid a lot of attention... I, I try to pay a lot of attention to the character of people that I [00:33:00] hire. a little bit lucky with these two, uh, guys, and, um, so that makes it easy. Uh, so when you're, when everybody's kind of pulling in the same direction, it works better

[00:33:12] Bob Ruffolo (5): This is a company that has seen significant growth with the Endless Customer System, and, and, and it's all right here for you. If you are a company that's doing Endless Customers that may be working for me, it may not be working for me, um, or, you know, we're thinking about getting started, we don't wanna screw it up, we just laid out the entire playbook here, and Tyler's doing an amazing job with his firm.

[00:33:35] Bob Ruffolo (5): One, you have to have a good business that knows exactly who your audience is, and you can say, "We are the best for this audience," and, and, and obviously have a great business to back that up, right? We just talked about that, the, the business worth choosing material that we've been rolling out lately. You have to kick this off the right way.

[00:33:51] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, you have to have somebody get, that gets everyone in your organization understanding the playbook, gets everyone going the same direction, um, and sometimes that can be a

[00:33:59] Tyler Thompson: [00:34:00] job with that. I think you guys do a really good job with that. Uh, you know, I didn't decide on my own, think of it on my own and decide on my own to be very intentional about this process. You know, that was pretty obvious from the materials I saw on the Impact Plus, uh, platform. so that was pretty easy just to say, "Okay, that makes sense. Do this first, do this next, do this next."

[00:34:24] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. Yeah. But you also did it, and that's the other thing. Some people will read about it and say, "Oh, this makes sense. We should do it," and then some people do it.

[00:34:32] Tyler Thompson: Right.

[00:34:32] Bob Ruffolo (5): And, and, you know, we, we came in, we got everyone on the same page with you. It's so important for somebody from the outside. Marcus has said this for years.

[00:34:38] Bob Ruffolo (5): You could be a prophet to the world, but no one's gonna listen to you in your own hometown,

[00:34:41] Tyler Thompson: For sure

[00:34:43] Bob Ruffolo (5): having somebody come in, and they just, it just hits different. They listen to it different. And then the, the next thing, you get a really good content manager, and then sometimes you can do them at the same time, sometimes you, you, you spread them out.

[00:34:55] Bob Ruffolo (5): But a really good videographer. But people that are sponges. They-[00:35:00] 

[00:35:03] Bob Ruffolo (5): Taya nas

[00:35:08] Bob Ruffolo (5): No

[00:35:17] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yep. I still have internet. Unless it's your machine

[00:35:28] Bob Ruffolo (5): All right, we're back

[00:35:30] Tyler Thompson: Okay, sorry about that.

[00:35:31] Bob Ruffolo (5): You're good

[00:35:32] Tyler Thompson: was on, on my side. Now I gotta find my, uh, window again

[00:35:38] Bob Ruffolo (5): No problem. I will hold my thought. I know exactly where I left off. No problem

[00:35:46] Bob Ruffolo (5): Oh, lost him again

[00:35:48] Tyler Thompson: go You still got me, Bob?[00:36:00] 

[00:36:03] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah, moving. Yeah, I'm moving. Yeah. Moving and grooving

[00:36:18] Bob Ruffolo (5): It happens

[00:36:52] Tyler Thompson: Oh, shoot. Oh, are we back?

[00:36:56] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah, I have you now.

[00:36:58] Tyler Thompson: I think I must be [00:37:00] having some Wi-Fi problems on my end. Sorry about that

[00:37:02] Bob Ruffolo (5): Oh, no. Okay. Well, we can, uh, probably pick right back up from here

[00:37:06] Tyler Thompson: Yeah, yeah, yeah

[00:37:09] Bob Ruffolo (5): And then, uh, and then the next thing is, um, having two people, having a content manager and shortly followed by, up by a videographer. I'm not sure, did you hire them both at the same time, or did you...

[00:37:19] Tyler Thompson: uh,

[00:37:19] Bob Ruffolo (5): Okay

[00:37:20] Tyler Thompson: was here as a, uh, digital marketing specialist for a year or 18 months before we hired IMPACT and, uh,

[00:37:28] Bob Ruffolo (5): Okay

[00:37:28] Tyler Thompson: hired the videographer, tried to have him hired right at the beginning of

[00:37:33] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:37:34] Tyler Thompson: the process

[00:37:35] Bob Ruffolo (5): Perfect. And it's not always possible for a company to hire both these roles if they don't have them at the same time, so

[00:37:40] Tyler Thompson: Sure

[00:37:40] Bob Ruffolo (5): start with a content manager and then f- followed by a videographer. But again, for the audience listening, having some people that are just passionate, that want to learn, they'll be sponges, and they want to take what they learn and try it and experiment, there's a persona there.

[00:37:55] Bob Ruffolo (5): And you've probably seen, uh, in past employees that are like, "Uh, I'm not sure if [00:38:00] I can do this. I don't get it," and stuff. That doesn't work. You have people that just want to take the ball and run with it and make the website theirs, make the YouTube channel theirs, and, "Look what I did. I played with this.

[00:38:10] Bob Ruffolo (5): I tweaked this. I adjusted this." That's where the magic happens, and then when, when a company like us comes in, we just fuel them. We just keep like giving new ideas, new inspiration, direct them a little bit, give them some feedback, and they just go, and that's how this all works. And again, your case in, your case improved it.

[00:38:28] Tyler Thompson: energy and attitude, you know, uh, you find people have energy and good attitude that wanna learn, like you said, that's the fuel. Yeah

[00:38:37] Bob Ruffolo (5): Now, I asked you to, uh, put some numbers together before this meeting, and I really appreciate you doing that. So if I can ask you, um, since you started this journey, um, going into 2025, and now here we are, uh, late 2026, uh, it's been almost 24 months. What would you say the, the biggest numbers that moved in your business because you've gone all in on Endless Customers?[00:39:00] 

[00:39:00] Tyler Thompson: Uh, biggest numbers that have moved. Well, we're pretty happy with the results in our average inbound deals per month. That's a metric we track pretty closely. Uh, if you look at 2023 and '24, which was the two years immediately preceding our journey with, with Impact Endless Customers, were doing about one deal a month from inbound. And, uh, that's not referrals. That's-- We don't, we don't call referrals inbound in our, in our, uh, business here. And then if we look at the nine months of 2026, it's been a little more than two deals per month. So that's about 100% increase. And we're, and we're a high ticket, relatively high ticket, purchase.

[00:39:53] Tyler Thompson: We don't need 30 new customers a month. We would choke on that. Uh,

[00:39:59] Bob Ruffolo (5): But [00:40:00] it's a, it's a double. I, I mean, and, and,

[00:40:02] Tyler Thompson: right

[00:40:03] Bob Ruffolo (5): and, and, you know, um, this is also in a time where website traffic has been dropping for businesses, for many businesses, um, and also a time where a lot of discretionary income for, for small business has been drying up, and you're, you're actually 100% over where you were before all this happened.

[00:40:21] Bob Ruffolo (5): So that's a, again, an incredible testament to the hard work your, your team's been putting in.

[00:40:26] Tyler Thompson: Right, and it's not magic. You know, I think you put yourself out there, you do it professionally. Uh, you know, people are looking for help. And, uh, so if you just make yourself as findable as you can be and as approachable as you can be, I don't think it's all that complicated. You be, be willing to spend some time on it and, uh, it's not that difficult. Very

[00:40:51] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah. Incredible. And obviously AI visibility, now we, we have metrics today for AI visibility, um, but of what you're, you're [00:41:00] tracking a, a 28% market share, uh, on brand visibility. Um, AI share of voice 37%, um, so we're starting to see some real growth in terms of that. And, and you- w- I've seen this firsthand.

[00:41:12] Bob Ruffolo (5): I've gone to your market, and I've pretended in so many different ways. I'm a restaurant, I'm this, I'm that. Uh, I've tried different towns near... And you guys come up every single time. So you're just, you're crushing on the AI visibility standpoint

[00:41:24] Tyler Thompson: Good to... Well, and this is, this is just in the last month, I suppose, where we've really dug into HubSpot's AEO tool. Uh, that's been a really interesting process. Okay, who really are our competitors? you know, what are the questions that people would be asking?

[00:41:44] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah

[00:41:45] Tyler Thompson: so we're still tinkering with that a little bit, where obviously the AEO tool allows us to see sort of on a daily basis what's happening with that.

[00:41:55] Tyler Thompson: And, uh, so we're paying attention and trying to, uh, tweak that the best we [00:42:00] can

[00:42:00] Bob Ruffolo (5): And there's a balance there. Um, we were-- Actually, Mary was just on the podcast right before today. We, we just filmed it. We batch record, and we were talking about this. You can go so top of the funnel, which is like they're not really buyers, they're just asking, in your case, accounting questions, and that's not what you wanna put in your brand visibility or your, your AEO tool.

[00:42:20] Bob Ruffolo (5): Um, and you also don't wanna put your branded terms where people are looking for you or, or, you know, anything else branded around your company. You gotta find that sweet spot in the middle where they're buyers,

[00:42:30] Tyler Thompson: Right

[00:42:30] Bob Ruffolo (5): unaware buyers looking for a company like you. You have a few prompts you can put in there, um, and AI can help you identify what would prompts be, and you go fill that up, and that's what you really monitor

[00:42:42] Tyler Thompson: Yeah. Yep. Yep. For sure. Doesn't help, it doesn't help if they go, uh, it doesn't help for me to have prompts in there about me.

[00:42:50] Bob Ruffolo (5): Exactly. Exactly. Even when we first did our tool, it's like we put in like, "What is Endless Customers?" And it's like, "Yeah, we have great AI visibility." It's like, eh, no. How about we put in [00:43:00] like, you know, who can, uh, y- how can I get, uh, what company can help me get more leads? Uh, and it, uh, it, it changes the story a little bit

[00:43:08] Tyler Thompson: And I, and I think that's where, you know, the... I think one of the most interesting things about your plan for us was the volume of content. And I early on remember thinking three videos and three articles a week, um, seem like a lot, and it is a lot. It is a

[00:43:33] Bob Ruffolo (5): Mm-hmm. Yeah

[00:43:34] Tyler Thompson: Um, but I think that's a big part of it, is it does need to be obvious that we're very serious about this stuff, and it's hard to do that with a video and an article.

[00:43:48] Bob Ruffolo (5): Exactly right

[00:43:49] Tyler Thompson: volume, I think, right? I think of digital presence as sort of a ball, and you are just adding air to it, you know. Uh, some- probably you t- you taught me [00:44:00] to think about it that way. so, you know, the more air you put in it, the bigger, the more space you're taking up and, and that's kinda been our approach.

[00:44:10] Bob Ruffolo (5): And Tyler, uh, you know, one state over from you, uh, is Scott Merritt with Honest Fix. I'm not sure if you've seen what he... He's putting out 11, 11 articles a, 11 articles a day

[00:44:20] Tyler Thompson: That should be, uh, maybe that's enough. I don't know.

[00:44:23] Bob Ruffolo (5): man. And I, I th- I do think that the amount of content has to go up from, from three, and, and we see a lot of companies are doing, they're, they're increasing it from three. I think you're in a good space, and you guys are, are obviously seeing the wins. But AI can just do so much more, and you still have to have the human touch with it, but especially when you have the HubSpot AEO tool, and you're seeing all this content you could be creating, and, and if you have your transcripts are being pulled in, and now you can start really doing some really cool stuff to get content out there faster

[00:44:50] Tyler Thompson: And it's low-hanging fruit a little bit, I think. If we are getting good at creating content, we're able to do that. You know, think we're still learning about [00:45:00] how does the funnel work in the AI search tools. but it's gonna be fun to learn. Uh, we are being cited. We do see leads from, uh, AI search. Uh, we have closed several f- in the last year from AI search. yeah, I'm a big believer. Th- the AEO tool in HubSpot and, uh, uh, trying to be as AI first as we can be

[00:45:29] Bob Ruffolo (5): Incredible. Well, as we get to, uh, the close of this episode, I'm gonna ask you one last question here. Uh, for anyone that's maybe early in their Endless Customers journey or considering getting on the journey, um, for someone that's now been on for almost two years and, and having incredible success, what is your biggest piece of advice?

[00:45:47] Tyler Thompson: I think it would be some help and just jump in. Uh, you know, it's... There's a lot to know with this. That is why it's helpful to have somebody who [00:46:00] knows it already, rather than try to figure out it, figure it out yourself. and then just jump in and experiment and figure out what works for you and, uh, your customers

[00:46:12] Bob Ruffolo (5): Now would you recommend John Becker for them?

[00:46:14] Tyler Thompson: Absolutely,

[00:46:15] Bob Ruffolo (5): Yeah.

[00:46:15] Tyler Thompson: Uh, uh, Mary Brown as well, and Jess, and yourself, and had nothing but good experiences with all you folks

[00:46:22] Bob Ruffolo (5): Well, we've had a great experience with you, and, and, you know, we get to work with a lot of different businesses. Um, and obviously we're much more of a teaching organization than doing it for your organization, so not everyone's gonna take the ball and run with it. This is why we love you guys so much, we're so proud of you, is that you took everything we, we teach seriously, and you've done it at a very, very high level because it starts with you.

[00:46:44] Bob Ruffolo (5): It starts with the CEO or the, the president, the, the business owner. It starts with a leader that says, "This is a priority and we have to get everyone moving in this direction." And when you do that, this is what you can accomplish. You could double your pipeline, double your revenue engine in two years.

[00:46:59] Bob Ruffolo (5): But [00:47:00] it, it takes ... You still have to have a great business like you did, and now you're just amplifying that with the Endless Customer System and, and the resources you put in place, and we couldn't be more proud of you

[00:47:09] Tyler Thompson: There's-- Uh, thank you very much, and we've had a ton of fun with it. But yeah, there's a lot of buyers out there, and it's just, uh, uh, trust is really what drives that. pretty easy to see that it's working for us

[00:47:24] Bob Ruffolo (5): Amazing, Tyler. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today

[00:47:27] Tyler Thompson: Thank you, Bob. Enjoyed it

[00:47:29] Bob Ruffolo (5): Well, this has been another episode of the Endless Customers Podcast.