Should You Vibe Code Your HubSpot Or WordPress Website? [Endless Customers Podcast Ep. 191]

This transcript has been generated by AI and not checked for accuracy. 

[00:00:00] Bob Ruffolo: Can you vibe code a HubSpot or WordPress website? Even if you can, should you? It's exciting to think you could just build or change a website just by telling AI what you want. But before you try it, you need to understand what works for your existing platform and what can actually create problems for you later.

[00:00:14] Bob Ruffolo: Today, Daniel Escardo, web developer here at Impact, joins me to talk through how to approach vibe coding, what to watch out for, and when you still need a developer involved. Let's get into it.​

[00:01:08] Bob Ruffolo: Welcome back to the Endless Customers Podcast. We have a great episode coming at you today. We're gonna talk about vibe coding. We've got a returning guest, Daniel Escardo. Welcome back to the podcast

[00:01:19] Daniel Escardo: Yeah, thank you for having me back

[00:01:21] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah, dude. We had a great episode, uh, what was it? Maybe two months ago, whatever it was. So we are going to do an update to that episode, right?

[00:01:28] Daniel Escardo: Yeah.

[00:01:29] Bob Ruffolo: Good.

[00:01:30] Daniel Escardo: Absolutely

[00:01:31] Bob Ruffolo: So, so Danny, um, uh, for those of you that don't know who you are, um, you're a web developer. You've been with IMPACT now, uh, almost eight years.

[00:01:40] Daniel Escardo: Almost.

[00:01:41] Bob Ruffolo: Yep. So, um, Danny's, Dan- Danny's phenomenal.

[00:01:45] Bob Ruffolo: Um, a wiz when it comes to WordPress, wiz when it comes to HubSpot websites. That's where your, your specialty, uh, specialties are. You obviously can do a lot of other things, but that's obviously what we focus on. And obviously, this topic of vibe coding is a very big topic, and there's... [00:02:00] it's on a lot of people's minds.

[00:02:01] Bob Ruffolo: We're talking about online. I'm seeing a lot of headlines right now of people being like, "Oh, yeah, we're fixing a lot of broken vibe code websites." And it's like, all right, well, let's just start right here. Um, our community, the Endless Customers community, um, some of them are really, really technical. Some of them are just starting in their journey.

[00:02:19] Bob Ruffolo: Uh, we all have websites, and we all use that website to bring our content to the world. We wanna optimize it so people know if they're a good fit for, for a potential customer, all of that. And, um, especially a lot of them are, are using HubSpot websites, and a lot of them are using WordPress websites. Um, what is your stance right now when it comes to vibe coding a website for a member of the community?

[00:02:44] Daniel Escardo: Yeah. Um, say that from the last time that we spoke about this till now, things have evolved, obviously.

[00:02:52] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:02:52] Daniel Escardo: new models have come out. they've gotten way better. and I think, um, a lot of, [00:03:00] a lot of people, the naysayers and the people who were the gatekeepers are starting to realize that, uh, there's a lot you can do.

[00:03:06] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:03:07] Daniel Escardo: And, and there's a lot that it can infer. Just about any website could be, I wouldn't say like vibe coded per se, but could be, um, could be edited AI. Uh, it could be created with AI under certain s- specific conditions. But, um, it is, uh, it's a brave new world.

[00:03:27] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:03:28] Daniel Escardo: are moving fast in a good way,

[00:03:31] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think so too. So just a little behind the scenes here, um, we've been really focusing on, um, this question: Should we be vibe coding websites at IMPACT and for our clients or with our clients? Um, and, uh, I, I've probably been the number one guinea pig more than anyone. Uh, and for those of you that don't know, IMPACT started as a web design company, and at one point IMPACT had one employee.

[00:03:57] Bob Ruffolo: So web design, [00:04:00] web development, web building, uh, it's my passion now. Um, the funny part is how many years did we go at IMPACT where I didn't do any web development? I did some design work, and I passed it over to, like, Christine or you guys, but I probably didn't build anything for 12 years, 13 years. I mean, once we started hiring web developers, I never built anything.

[00:04:22] Bob Ruffolo: So, um, I kind of got out of the game a little bit, but I'm now back in the game.

[00:04:26] Daniel Escardo: Yeah, you didn't need to.

[00:04:28] Bob Ruffolo: I didn't need to. Yeah. But I'm, I'm doing a lot more now. And, uh, and, and, you know, I think we had the mindset here at IMPACT that we have our modules. Um, when I say modules, we have the Trust Theme. Many of our clients use the Trust Theme.

[00:04:43] Bob Ruffolo: Um, and the Trust Theme is a HubSpot theme that you can purchase and install. You can build your whole website on it. And, um, and that has a series of modules that this team has done a beautiful job over many years honing them in, perfecting the modules, make sure they respond, make sure they're [00:05:00] cross-browser compatible, make sure they're easy to use.

[00:05:02] Bob Ruffolo: They have all sorts of flexibility built into them, so you can size things differently, different colors, um, and everything is built perfect, so you have a perfect website. And for many years, clients loved it because it was so easy to update our website. "Finally, it's so easy to update our website," um, because we had these modules, and you guys worked so hard on that.

[00:05:21] Bob Ruffolo: And all of a sudden people are like, "Do we want modular websites anymore? We just wanna build a, a vibe code or website." And Claude like, "How come I can't just make this my site?" Um, so for a little while, we were having a debate like, "What is the right thing to do? Should people continue using these module websites and just build on the Trust Theme, or should we let people vibe code or, or is it a combination of both?"

[00:05:42] Bob Ruffolo: And, you know, that's what our last episode was kind of about, like, I'm not sure it's really there yet, but our stance has changed. I think it's there. So Danny, what, what, what have you guys seen on your side from, from this?

[00:05:53] Daniel Escardo: Yeah. I think in terms of the technology, it's there,

[00:05:57] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:05:58] Daniel Escardo: or it's, [00:06:00] uh, weeks or months away from being there. Um, in terms of whether or not it is the right move for certain companies, I think that still, um, is a decision to make. I think the smaller companies, the ones that can move very fast, ones that have one overarching, um, visionary that decides what goes and what doesn't go in terms of strategy, design, and so on, think there is no, there's no faster way to get something from idea to, uh, a webpage than to essentially vibe code it. I do think, um, in terms of the larger teams, um, there is still, there's probably gonna end up being a hybrid of the two, where you'll have some structured content management of some sort, and then some, um, decoupled headless front end that can [00:07:00] read that, uh, that CMS back end, where could iterate very quickly to create new features for their site, still have the, the structure to able to control who changes what, um, you know, to be able to schedule things, to be able to integrate with certain things. Uh, and we're seeing all of the major SaaS providers of CMS, um, including WordPress, which isn't really a SaaS, but, um, they're all starting to sort of move in that direction.

[00:07:33] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:07:34] Daniel Escardo: You know, HubSpot is unlocking by day things from their, uh, s- from the CRM and from the back end of HubSpot to be able to be used by an agent. heard about, uh, Salesforce. That was a big dramatic, uh, announcement that they made, where it's essentially gonna be headless, uh, at some point. So yeah,

[00:07:56] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. And when you say, when you, when you say headless for the audience that doesn't know what [00:08:00] headless means, you've used that a couple times. What does headless mean in simple terms?

[00:08:04] Daniel Escardo: Yeah, so traditionally if you were using a CMS, everything was encompassed in the CMS. You had the, the, the body, which was the sort of the back end, and then the head, which is what everybody sees first,

[00:08:17] Bob Ruffolo: interface

[00:08:18] Daniel Escardo: the front end, right, the interface. Now, uh, so headless just means that you could develop the, the front-facing piece of it something that's a little bit to iterate and keep the CMS the way that it's currently structured, right? if you had, like for example, if you were, um, if you were already in HubSpot, and let's say you had a ton of HubDB tables, and you had a ton of products, and you had a ton of blog posts, and you had, um, other posts, post types and, and, and that sort of thing, then wouldn't want to necessarily take [00:09:00] that and hard-code it or make it something that, that is no longer decoupled, right?

[00:09:08] Daniel Escardo: It's, it starts to become something that is weighing down that front end that you're trying to make very nimble and very optimized and very fast.

[00:09:15] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:09:16] Daniel Escardo: So you would lean on that existing data, and then there's ways to, know, send requests to HubSpot and say, "Give me all the blog post data,"

[00:09:24] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:09:25] Daniel Escardo: bring it back over to the, to the front end

[00:09:27] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. Ver-

[00:09:28] Daniel Escardo: in this case.

[00:09:29] Bob Ruffolo: very cool. So here's my, my journey, and we'll, we'll talk about this a little bit more in detail. So my, my journey was, um, we had this HubSpot website. Um, and, and, um, and a lot of this also started, and behind the scenes here, uh, we had an employee that worked on our marketing team for, uh, like 12 years, uh, Christine Austin.

[00:09:49] Bob Ruffolo: Um, and she, uh, she left for another opportunity. Um, and, uh, she was the only person that worked on Impact's website for, like, 12 years. Um, and then the [00:10:00] web team started working on it a little bit, but you guys have clients, and it was not fully working the way we want it to. Um, no shorts you guys, but obviously client work always came first, and I'm sure anyone that's had needs for a business like this could see that, that thing.

[00:10:13] Bob Ruffolo: So I was like, and I have this AI tool. I know Claude can code. I'm hearing about, you know, connecting, uh, your systems and all this. So I was like, "I can probably just figure this out." So over my nights and weekends, I just worked with, um, Claude at the time. I've m- since moved a lot of my stuff over to, to ChatGPT, and I said, " How do I, um, start updating my website?"

[00:10:36] Bob Ruffolo: And I said, "These are the things I wanna do." Um, and, and it's a HubSpot website. Is it possible to do this? And of course, it just said yes. I said, "What do I have to do?" And now I'm in a position where I'm the owner of the business, and I have administrative controls over our HubSpot, so, um, I have access to all sorts of different tools, um, and, uh, I could do whatever APIs and everything I need or, or could do.

[00:10:59] Bob Ruffolo: So I [00:11:00] had access to everything. So for me, it was really... And we're gonna come back to that in a minute here too. It was really easy for me to be able to, um, hack it together, figure out now I have control. Um, of course, I had to really pay attention to when I was creating these, um, APIs, um, what kind of, uh, access and permissions I had.

[00:11:22] Bob Ruffolo: Um, I probably gave myself a lot that I probably didn't need to, but I want to make sure I had access to be able to update our website. Um, I'm sure people are gonna listen to this episode and be like, "Bob, you still, like, you gotta be careful." And I'm, and I am, but to a certain extent. And, uh, but I was able to do it, and then I was able to ask it, "Hey, can we change the navigation?

[00:11:43] Bob Ruffolo: Can we change this headline?" And it would do it. Um, so technically, I, I think there was a CLI involved. There was the, um, the connector, and it also opens up in the browser from time to time, and we'll make edits right in the browser. Um, so, so [00:12:00] Danny, when we had our meeting last time, the CLI was not fully out yet.

[00:12:03] Bob Ruffolo: The, the developer CLI for HubSpot wasn't out, but now that's out. How does that work for everyone that wants to understand what the CLI is and, and how they can start doing like what, what I've been doing?

[00:12:14] Daniel Escardo: Yeah. actually, so this is, is funny because this is something that we all get confused. Um, and so the, the HubSpot developer CLI has been out for a long, long time. I just wanna make--

[00:12:27] Bob Ruffolo: Okay. Yep

[00:12:29] Daniel Escardo: that part. and that is being, uh, updated constantly. As a matter of fact, today they had a release, uh, for some new functionality.

[00:12:38] Daniel Escardo: They, uh, updated, uh, Node, the version of Node that it requires. There's a, a bunch of things. So it's constantly being New things are, um, are unlocked for it. Then there's the, the what they're calling the HubSpot CLI, which is that thing that we talked about which is in beta.

[00:12:58] Bob Ruffolo: Okay, so that's a new one

[00:12:59] Daniel Escardo: [00:13:00] one, it, that one is the one that's in beta.

[00:13:02] Daniel Escardo: I don't know for sure if it's been released. I don't think so.

[00:13:05] Bob Ruffolo: Okay

[00:13:07] Daniel Escardo: and that's the one where, um, is the one where they said anything you can do, uh, a human can do in the backend of HubSpot, you'll be able to do. Right? Now, that could be true for certain CMS like design manager things, but I don't think that's the intended purpose of that specific CLI.

[00:13:26] Daniel Escardo: That one is more for mass updating of CRM, um, contacts or, um, interfacing with, uh, things in HubDB, like data manipulation, I would say is what that I think is meant for.

[00:13:42] Bob Ruffolo: Okay

[00:13:43] Daniel Escardo: new, properties, contact properties, product properties, and that sort of thing. So I can see where that would be useful for a lot of our clients because it's something like, um, have, uh, we have a new client and, and they're, um, a boat, uh, reseller, and they have tons of [00:14:00] products, right? so the current process is they have to manage it in a spreadsheet. can then import it into HubSpot, then they gotta export it from HubSpot if any changes have been made, and redo that, go through that whole process. I could see a world where AI would be able to manage that part based on certain instruction. so I think that that's really what they're, they're going after with that CLI.

[00:14:27] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:14:28] Daniel Escardo: The HubSpot's, the developer CLI is the one that I mentioned unlocks ability to upload files, create HubDB tables, um, from scratch. It lets you, uh, manipulate some of the data in pages and things like that. Not all of it, but some of it. Um, it lets you, uh, it lets your AI auto-magically, uh, search their, uh, their documents, so all the documentation,

[00:14:55] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:14:55] Daniel Escardo: a question about, "How do I do this thing?" it can just go straight to the documentation. You don't have to [00:15:00] be linking it to anything. It, it's, that's what it m- it's mostly meant for.

[00:15:04] Bob Ruffolo: Got it. Um, so, so I'm, I'm all hooked up, and, and now we're building out everything we need, right? So n- I taught Nicole how to do what I'm doing, so Nicole's our head of sales marketing. She's all set up, and we have unlimited reign. So this is one of the things you were mentioning before, like there needs to be permissions inside the company because you can't have everyone in your marketing team having unlimited reign.

[00:15:27] Bob Ruffolo: Uh, a- and, you know, uh, how would you, I guess from a permission standpoint, is there a way to set up HubSpot so that, say, Ashley, our content manager, can only update content on pages while maybe somebody that is more development-focused or, uh, really understands structure of web pages and can actually go in and, and build out pages and, and, and they know what they're doing.

[00:15:54] Bob Ruffolo: Um, how would that permission be set up inside an organization? Do you know?

[00:15:59] Daniel Escardo: I [00:16:00] believe, and I, I don't know for sure if this is for the developer's CLI, but I believe so. I think it follows your permissions. So if your role in that portal is, say, super admin, you can do whatever you want. If your role has been limited by the super admin to only have s- access to certain things, then you'll probably be limited by those same, permissions.

[00:16:25] Bob Ruffolo: That makes a lot of sense

[00:16:27] Daniel Escardo: yeah, and if that's not the case, because it could be that I'm confused with the HubSpot CLI, which I know for a fact works that way,

[00:16:34] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:16:34] Daniel Escardo: to, um, to limit the ability to change content based on the scopes that are given to a, um, a l- a private app or, um, a legacy, leg- like a legacy private app or a service key, which is what those used to be, where, um, your access through the API is really limited in terms [00:17:00] of what you've given that app access to. those are two different ways to, to control it. I have to believe the developer CLI, um, is, is just going to give you access to do the stuff that a developer can do. Um, so it's not like you'll be changing contacts through the HubSpot CLI or the developer CLI

[00:17:20] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. Now, one of the things I've been really impressed with while doing this work and building out pages is, and I'm sure we can build out some skills a-and do this a little bit better, um, but if I just prompt and say, you know, "We have these modules in our HubSpot. I want you to use these first. Um, don't build any new modules unless, um, I deliberately instruct you to build a new module.

[00:17:44] Bob Ruffolo: Just construct the pages and the modules that we have and configure them however," um, it does a really beautiful job at that, um, which I've been incredibly impressed, which is allowing me to vibe code the page how I want it, um, and I can adjust the modules however we [00:18:00] want by just communicating with my, my ChatGPT or my Codex.

[00:18:03] Bob Ruffolo: And then, um, but on the back end, anyone on our marketing team can go and update the, the modules if they want, just wanna change a word and not have it connected to their AI, which has been a really nice thing. Um, and I know we're thinking about that when it comes to the trust theme that we built. It's how do we allow our clients to have both?

[00:18:24] Bob Ruffolo: And I think the decision w-we decided was, um, some clients are not going to want to vibe code their site, um, and, but they're gonna want regular updates to the modules. Um, and we have to be careful 'cause we can't let both happen. We can't have people vibe coding, um, on our... Or I guess they probably could, right?

[00:18:43] Bob Ruffolo: Can they-- If they have the trust theme, can they still connect to the developer CLI and, and update it?

[00:18:49] Daniel Escardo: Yeah. So, um, those, yeah, so those two things are not, uh, mutually exclusive. So like if you install the, the trust theme through the marketplace,

[00:18:58] Bob Ruffolo: Mhm

[00:18:59] Daniel Escardo: and [00:19:00] you, um, you want to develop something brand new, 100%, somebody could do exactly what you've been doing, and I think it would have a... They would have a much better time than I did that last time that we were trying, to get something that seems like it came with the trust theme because it has all the same, you know, bells and whistles, but with their, uh, specific functionality built in there. The challenge comes when you try to change something that already exists, right? So if your, if your goal is to change the, um, a card- the cards module it's missing a feature, and your AI will say, "Oh, that's easy. We can just override, um, the parent version of that module in the child theme, and then we can make our changes in there."

[00:19:53] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:19:54] Daniel Escardo: forking, right? If we fork the module, the problem is no longer-- [00:20:00] You've basically assumed responsibility for that module, so any updates that happen for that specific module, you won't receive. if we, if we were to come up with a new magic way to optimize that module so that it loads in, you know, one, one millisecond, receive that. So, um, we would s- we would suggest that people err on lean towards creating something new. So like even if it's the cards module and you're trying to add a new feature to it, create a new version of the cards module, call it whatever, um, so that it doesn't decouple you. You'll have both versions

[00:20:45] Bob Ruffolo: Okay

[00:20:46] Daniel Escardo: your custom version, and you'll have the, the cards version. And Yeah. I mean, that's the one thing I didn't mention when we were talking about the, the headless thing, is that there are still gonna be... There's still, [00:21:00] uh, I think, a use case for, um, the traditional CMS because you can build pages very quickly. And, uh, as you've seen, and as we've seen with some of our testing, like with Cowork and even with CloudCode, it is getting very good at figuring out, "Hey, I have all this structure here. All I gotta do is plug in the content, and I don't have to recreate all of this." And the nice thing about that is it creates consistency across your pages.

[00:21:29] Daniel Escardo: One page's cards module looks just like the one on the next page, as opposed to this one, you know, being a little bit smaller and this one being a little bit bigger. Eventually, your site can look like a ransom note

[00:21:40] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. Wow. 

[00:21:42] Bob Ruffolo: All right, so you just mentioned ransom note, and that's one thing we wanna make sure everyone's protecting against. And, and the, the headlines right now, if you go on LinkedIn, you're seeing a lot of people talking about HubSpot websites or just vibe code websites in general, and, and agencies are now starting to say, like, " Oh, like our whole model is now fixing your broken vibe [00:22:00] code website," or, "You went-- you had your website, you started to vibe code something, you broke it, and now you're coming to us as an emergency to go fix what you broke," right?

[00:22:08] Bob Ruffolo: So I still think we need to proceed with caution here. Um, your website, just like anything in your business, um, your website's a core component to your business, just like your accounting department is, your QuickBooks is, your CRM is, um, and so many other things. Um, and you're not gonna just, like, not know what you're doing and, and play around with your accounting software, right?

[00:22:32] Bob Ruffolo: You feel like you're gonna break something or just give permission to AI and, and just start messing around and like, "Oh my, you know, I might break payroll. I might change my report or something. I might break something." Your website's the same way. I think when you hear about these people that are doing incredible things, vibe coding websites or vibe coding software, it's because they still know what they're doing, and I think that can't be missed.

[00:22:56] Bob Ruffolo: Yes, Claude can build you something, but [00:23:00] if you don't know how that was built or how it works or, um, to know to check it for certain things, for vulnerabilities, for responsiveness, for, um, is it actually connecting? Because AI's gonna go, and it's gonna do what it thinks it needs to do, but you still have to be the human in the loop knowing that was done right.

[00:23:18] Bob Ruffolo: And I think when we're seeing a lot of people breaking their websites right now, it's because they think they can do it because they have AI, but they actually have no idea what they're doing. And all of a sudden it's like, "Yeah, we have all these forms on our site," but no, we didn't know to actually make sure that these forms, when people fill it out, it gets wired where it's supposed to go, and we broke all that.

[00:23:36] Bob Ruffolo: Or, um, yeah, it's not responsive or, or, or, you know, it's got some broken links or, or whatever it might be. Um, it's not compliant in this area or, um, we left the no index, no follow on our site. I'm getting a whole bunch of different things, and sure, you could use this as a checklist, but there's a hundred different things.

[00:23:56] Bob Ruffolo: And I think that's probably our word of caution here is it's cool to vibe [00:24:00] code your website, and yes, you could do so much with it. The capabilities are there, but I think the fear and that, that... or not the fear, but the caution people need to have is that if you don't know what you're doing, you still should have somebody in the loop with you that does know what they're doing to make sure you're not breaking everything.

[00:24:16] Bob Ruffolo: And, and Danny, you've seen some vibe code stuff, stuff come your way and, and now I, I think I'm, I'm decently good at checking my own work, and, and I know how to double-check my work, but you've probably seen things come across your plate that's broken and, and that's, that's not what you want. No company wants to be in that position.

[00:24:35] Daniel Escardo: Yeah, that's a, that's a fantastic point. Um, so just because something looks done doesn't mean it is done, right? Just because something shines doesn't mean it's gold. So there may be underlying issues that you would never even think, and even if you test it, at scale, they don't function the same way that they would in a quick QA test or whatever. Um, so a stupid example. [00:25:00] you, you decide you wanna implement some sort of search feature

[00:25:03] Bob Ruffolo: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:04] Daniel Escardo: your, uh, on a, on a module randomly on your website for whatever reason, and you ask the AI to build you a search functionality, right? But the AI decides that it wants to run a search or whatever query it is searching every time you do a keystroke. One person may not notice that there's an issue, but if you were-- if you had 5,000 visitors on your site at a given time, right, that is, uh, what's called sort of like a race condition. You have got every time somebody does a keystroke in that search, um, in that search field, there's a query going out to that database, and it's returning results every single time.

[00:25:46] Daniel Escardo: You're talking thousands of queries going and happening at the same time. Your site can slow down. You could have endless loops. There's all kinds of issues that can happen, and that's just a very stupid rudimentary issue that can pop up. [00:26:00] Um, that's not to say even the, the things you're talking about with the forms.

[00:26:05] Daniel Escardo: If you're hard coding forms, then you're assuming the responsibility of validating those forms and making sure that they are not vulnerable to, uh, man-in-the-middle attacks or JavaScript attacks and all kinds of other attacks that are possible on a form that isn't properly escaped or secure. So, um, I think y- the point you're making is, is very important for people to keep in mind. you know, if, if I had some, some plumbing work to do in my house, I might be able to change the, uh, faucet in my sink, but there are definitely certain things that I need a professional for uh, I might end up flooding my house so

[00:26:46] Bob Ruffolo: yeah. No, it's a, that's a great analogy. That is a great analogy. It's like, "Oh yeah, it's just a couple of pipes and, and I watched a YouTube video." Like Vibe Coding is the, the, the, it's like the an- analogy of like, "I watched the YouTube videos. I know what I'm doing." [00:27:00] That's a, that was a good analogy.

[00:27:02] Bob Ruffolo: Um, so, so, to, to bring this episode to a close, um, I, I think we, we, we hit some of the main points here. Um, the technology is there. You said that right off the bat. Um, uh, if you have a WordPress website, a HubSpot website, Shopify, whatever website you have, um, the technology is there. You could just ask AI, um, how to wire it all up.

[00:27:24] Bob Ruffolo: And if you have access, uh, administrative access to your website, you could just wire the whole thing up. Um, uh, there-- Doesn't mean you should just go and start building your website. If you don't know what you're doing, there's a lot of risk that comes with that. Um, a-and, and there's security risks, there's all sorts of risks that go with that, so you have to be very careful if you don't know what you're doing.

[00:27:45] Bob Ruffolo: Yes, you can, but AI can make a lot of mistakes, and we've all experienced AI where it, it said, "Hey, it's, this is done." And you're like, "No, actually you missed this." And you're like, "You're right. I forgot this." So we know AI will do that. You have to be very careful of that. There's also [00:28:00] permissioning issues inside your company.

[00:28:01] Bob Ruffolo: Some people need to have access, other ones don't. You have to make sure you get permissions right. Now, if you are really passionate, you're saying, "Listen, Vibe Coding is the future. We wanna be able to Vibe Code our, our website," um, we can help you with that. So Danny and his team, they teach people how to do it the right way.

[00:28:19] Bob Ruffolo: They hold your hand, they guide you through it. They, they give you a little bit so you start learning, you're doing it the right way. They start taking off the guardrails, but while making sure that you're not doing anything that's gonna hurt your business. It, it's basically a service we offer. Work with our strategists, and we'll get you the right environment so you can get you all set up, um, but also make sure that you're, you're not, uh, putting yourself at risk.

[00:28:41] Bob Ruffolo: So Danny, if somebody wants to get in touch with you to learn more about how they can Vibe Code a WordPress website or a HubSpot website, those are the two that we specialize in. Um, if you have a HubSpot website, you're like, "I really wanna start, like, using Claude to start changing it, adding a price calculator, self-service, all this stuff.

[00:28:56] Bob Ruffolo: Somebody help me do that," how can they get in touch with you?

[00:28:58] Daniel Escardo: They can reach out if they're [00:29:00] working with a coach. They can reach out to their coach and the coach can, um, make, make the connection happen, or they can reach out to me directly, at my email, which is descardo@impactplus.com

[00:29:14] Bob Ruffolo: Awesome. Or go to our, uh, our Talk to Us page and just request Danny. He'll hop on a call with you.

[00:29:20] Daniel Escardo: Yeah.

[00:29:21] Bob Ruffolo: Awesome. Um, any other parting advice before we wrap up this episode, Danny?

[00:29:26] Daniel Escardo: No, uh, I think, uh, we, we covered all of the, the bases. Um, one thing, uh, you know, and this is, this is something everybody will advise is to remember that the AI is not a deterministic

[00:29:42] Bob Ruffolo: Yes

[00:29:43] Daniel Escardo: will not always give you the same output. So, um, because no one really understands the decisions and how they're made, it is something that always, always needs a human in the loop

[00:29:55] Bob Ruffolo: That's a really good point. Um, Dharmesh described it as [00:30:00] a, um, highly advanced, uh, autocorrect or au- au- autocomplete. It's-- It makes little decisions and another decision, a little, another decision, uh, it goes that way. And you're right, it can go in a million different directions, and that's why sometimes AI is like consistent, consistent, consistent, consistent.

[00:30:17] Bob Ruffolo: Now we get a little context rot, and we start, you know, working with it too much, and it starts going off in a totally different direction. You're like, "Why are you doing that? You were doing everything perfect, now you're doing this." That's what AI does. So yeah, that's a, a great point to make if you're starting to build out your website, expect that to start happening.

[00:30:32] Bob Ruffolo: Again, that's why you have to have somebody who knows what they're doing when they're doing all this. All right, Danny, I really appreciate you being on the show today, man. Thanks for coming on

[00:30:39] Daniel Escardo: Anytime. Thank you for having me again

[00:30:41] Bob Ruffolo: And this has been another episode of the Endless Customers Podcast. We will see you at the next episode 

[00:30:46] Stephanie Baiocchi: If you liked this episode, please take a minute to leave us a review. Thanks for checking out the Endless Customers Podcast.