The New Speed to Lead: From First Call to Booked Appointment [Endless Customers Podcast Ep. 181]

This transcript has been generated by AI and not checked for accuracy. 

[00:00:00] You can spend even more than ever generating leads, but if your business takes too long to respond, that money could be walking straight to a competitor. And today, simply being the first company to reply isn't enough. You need to be the first to answer the buyer's questions, remove the friction, and help them complete the next step.

[00:00:17] In this episode, Luke Wilson from Signpost and I break down what speed to lead really looks like now, how AI can carry a real conversation instead of sending a useless autoresponder, and how to make it easy for buyers to reach you from any channel and book you right from their phones​

[00:01:15] Bob Ruffolo: And welcome back to the Endless Customers Podcast. We have a great episode today. We're gonna be talking about speed to lead. So when we talk about speed to lead, you know Endless Customers is all about winning that 80%. How do you get 80% that when people are making their buying process decisions or doing their research or out in the market, uh, 80% of their decision is made before a company ever knows that a prospect exists, right?

[00:01:43] Bob Ruffolo: Um, then there's that moment when a prospect finally reaches out, they unveil themselves by, they fill out a form, or they reach out, they wanna talk to sales. Um, and, and that's a very key moment. But just because you win that point where somebody reaches out and they want to have a conversation with your sales team, obviously doesn't mean they're going to become a [00:02:00] customer.

[00:02:00] Bob Ruffolo: There's still a lot of work to do to get from 80% all the way to that 100%, we win a customer, and it's makes the whole system work, right? Endless customers. And we have someone today, uh, we've known for a while, a member of our community, and what he does in, in his product is he specializes in helping people not just win that final 20% to get new customers, but just, like, dominate in that area so that they are the only choice, right?

[00:02:30] Bob Ruffolo: Because the company is so responsive and they just nail that. Um, this is not a sponsored session, uh, it's just somebody that we believe in their product and their services and what they teach. And today is not about their product, it's about the whole philosophies of speed to lead and winning that sale after someone reaches out to you.

[00:02:47] Bob Ruffolo: So I would like to welcome my guest, Luke Wilson, from a company called Signpost. Luke, welcome to the Endless Customers Podcast.

[00:02:54] Luke Wilson: Hey, it's great to be here. Super jacked up. I've had three cups of coffee, so it should be a great c- great conversation. [00:03:00] We're

[00:03:00] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. So, so Luke, you obviously, um, built a product, um, that helps companies, um, uh, and you've focused on the trades. Um, but this is not just for the trades we're gonna be talking about today. This is just all together.

[00:03:16] Luke Wilson: Correct

[00:03:17] Bob Ruffolo: built the product because you were seeing very common problems in the world, um, in the way companies were handling these inbound leads coming in.

[00:03:26] Bob Ruffolo: Um, so what were you seeing and like what were the, the three or four most common things that companies were getting wrong and was costing them money?

[00:03:35] Luke Wilson: It's-- And it goes back to the core, uh, of how I was raised. Uh, immigrant family, small, medium business owner, grandpa very passionate about what he did, right? And so what he sucked at was any kind of communication, any kind of technology, any kind of follow-up. He was great at, at, at what he did. It was all the other pieces that the consumer required of him.

[00:03:55] Luke Wilson: So then all of us, as we grew up in this business, filled in all those gaps, right? [00:04:00] What we noticed at Signpost AI was like, look, we have great tradespeople that we support. And why we're focused on the trades is it's such a massive market that we had to really dial in to be effective, right? We, we don't have endless resources.

[00:04:12] Luke Wilson: We don't have endless-- uh, a big checkbook to take care of things. We really had to dial it in and, and make sure we, we took care of one group. The trades, uh, it was sp-specifically home service for us. We noticed that they pay more than ever for a lead to try to get in front of a customer, or they spend all of this money to get a customer, and now they're in this book of business, and that book of business reaches out and no one follows up because I'm busy on the job.

[00:04:38] Luke Wilson: Like, that's my frustration. I'm in a, I'm in an attic replacing an AC unit. I am out in a field wiring up an electrical panel. I don't have time to respond to all these leads. And, and what we were finding was there's so much friction between the homeowner or someone that needs a service, right? So they could go call-- It's, it's industry agnostic. Information is right in this thing right here, [00:05:00] right? Like it is, it, it's-- So I want it now. I need an answer now. If I, if I'm that, that person that's in, uh, in Texas here in this hundred and five degree heat, my AC goes out, I want now. I don't care if you've serviced me for the last fifteen years. If you don't respond, I'm gonna find somebody that will. Twenty years ago, information wasn't that accessible, right? It wasn't that easy just to go and, and search ChatGPT and say, "Who's the best, you know, AC provider in, in this little area?" And they give me five, right? There's that. I didn't have access to that. And so what we were noticing was this friction. This home service provider wants to do the best. They care about their reputation. They want great reviews. They want to help you. They wanna-- That's how they pay for their family, right? They wanna come take care of you. you have such an access to immediate gratification that you're not, that the two don't line up.

[00:05:46] Luke Wilson: The, the inability to respond and connect and keep the conversation going. And then we also found a massive friction point in the business owner was the adoption of technology. Technology was clunky for them. It wasn't developed well. And the other piece was it's kind of scary. Why would I give control [00:06:00] over to this technology that I don't believe in or know anything about?

[00:06:02] Luke Wilson: That, that was-- that's the long-winded answer of, of, like, just a gap. Uh, it's just a complete gap in communication.

[00:06:09] Bob Ruffolo: So that makes so much sense. Okay, so just recapping what I think I just heard you say, um, many businesses, um, have been around for a long time, especially a lot of the ones in our community, the companies we work with. What used to work 20 years ago and what the market would expect, and it was like, "Oh, I'm gonna reach out to five companies and...

[00:06:27] Bob Ruffolo: or 10 companies, and, you know, I'll probably have a conversation with five of them. They'll get back to me on their schedule," a little bit more acceptable in the '90s, early 2000s. Um, and we didn't need, the technology didn't exist, we didn't need the technology to do this. So it was just, "Hey, I'm on a job, and I'll call you back sometime in the next couple of days," and I think that's standard across the, the board.

[00:06:48] Bob Ruffolo: But what you're saying, and we've seen it, I think everyone in the audience knows this, is such more demand for instant gratification, self-service. I want it, and I want it right now, [00:07:00] and I don't want to have a conversation with 10 companies, five companies. I want to reach out to the three that I over- already reached out to, and the first one that reaches out to me will probably get my business because I'm busy, and I don't want to deal with it.

[00:07:14] Bob Ruffolo: And if you're still living in this legacy world, and you don't have systems and tools and things in place to handle that, and somebody else does, you might as well say bye-bye to the lead because the stats show the first company that reaches out, it will almost always win the job

[00:07:31] Luke Wilson: Almost always, and I'll expand on that point. You may have an autoresponder, right? You're like, "Okay, I'm rocking. This is good technology. I got an autoresponder." And it responds once, so you're the first to respond. You're there. You, you've won it, right? No, because you're not the first to carry the conversation and address the needs, right?

[00:07:47] Luke Wilson: So like that's that, that's the technology gap that we were noticing was, um, people would tout to us, " I've got an autoresponder. soon as somebody texts me, it responds right back, says I'll get back to them in twenty-four hours." Well, it's not good enough. Like you were the first to respond, but you were [00:08:00] not the first to carry on the conversation and to solve.

[00:08:02] Luke Wilson: And, and I know we can jump into that a little later on, but it really is, to your point, what worked even five years ago, I'll be very candid with you,

[00:08:09] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:08:10] Luke Wilson: work today because all of us, um, our technology personally is rapidly advancing as well. So then we're-- our, just our expectations keep going up.

[00:08:19] Luke Wilson: The bar

[00:08:20] Bob Ruffolo: That's right. You know, you said, uh, five years ago, w- what worked five years ago still doesn't work today. And obviously, what's changed in the last five years? The advent of AI, right? And that's changed, and especially over the last couple years when, uh, the AI voice technology has come so far, or the quality of the messaging and being able to connect it to a knowledge base and, and database.

[00:08:42] Bob Ruffolo: And, and, uh, we've now all as, as users, um, maybe two, three years ago, having a conversation with an AI agent, whether it be a voice or chat, um, might have been a little clunky or was new to us, and, and all of a sudden we had one good experience. You're like, "Oh, that was pretty freaking cool." Today, [00:09:00] it's like now we've had several interactions with these AI, uh, voice agents or t- or text agents, and we now expect brands to have that, 'cause why wouldn't they?

[00:09:11] Bob Ruffolo: It's everyone's starting to do that. How are you not doing that? And again, now to your point, the bar is higher, and we're just ready to jump all in. So let me, let me ask this, Luke. Um, a- and we'll stay, again, I wanna stay a little bit more industry agnostic for the audience. Obviously, we know trades, this is so applicable for, but I think it applies to accounting firms and manufacturing, and you go down the whole list.

[00:09:34] Bob Ruffolo: Um, what are the best companies doing today? Um, so somebody reaches out to them. Um, how are they setting this lead capture up in a way that's better than the competitors? And then what are they doing better than everyone else to close that sale, um, where the competition doesn't even know that they're f- so far behind?

[00:09:58] Bob Ruffolo: So maybe give us a small handful of [00:10:00] things that the best companies are doing, and, and also give it to us in a little bit of an actual way so people can learn from this and say, "Hey, maybe this is something I can start implementing in my, my systems."

[00:10:10] Luke Wilson: So I am passionate that this is industry agnostic, right? Like I, I, I'll echo your point. This applies-- My point of reference is because we only have so much bandwidth to serve a, a certain... And, and I'm very big on, um, when we say serve, we really serve. We wanna solve the point. I'm not interested in having, you know, ten thousand customers, but we do a halfway job for all of them, right?

[00:10:30] Luke Wilson: I, I would rather serve five hundred customers and know that we crush it for those five hundred. And I think your audience is very much the same way, right? Like just know

[00:10:37] Bob Ruffolo: Oh ja

[00:10:37] Luke Wilson: care of the customer. But it is industry agnostic, and I'm gonna use a home service business as an example, but it, it can apply to anyone. The ones that are winning currently are not afraid of AI technology. And, and, and we have both ends. If you remember, um, our company has made a transition. We were Signpost, and we transitioned into Signpost AI. The old Signpost was very [00:11:00] much a live receptionist, contact center-like model. Uh, we ch- we would help people with reviews.

[00:11:05] Luke Wilson: We do-- But it was all manual lifting, right? Everything

[00:11:08] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:11:08] Luke Wilson: lift. The, the businesses that are with us, w-we have a, a, a HVAC company that is with us that has multiple locations with us, and we've seen them grown from, from the one location, and they just keep adding and growing. And what has made them super successful is they have continually refined how they use AI technology to where now they're using not an autoresponder, using a conversational SMS responder that says, "Hey, how are you?"

[00:11:38] Luke Wilson: It's connected to a knowledge base that they have. It asks applicable questions. It is carrying on a conversation. The customer knows it's an AI product. This is the big thing, I think, folks in my world, we do the, the providers a disservice. We try to like sneak and say, "Oh no, it's gonna feel human. It's not..."

[00:11:55] Luke Wilson: No, it does not, right? Like people understand. All of us, we know when we're [00:12:00] communicating with... But if it's good, and it's connected the right way, and it's right, we're okay because it's

[00:12:04] Bob Ruffolo: And we're okay with it

[00:12:05] Luke Wilson: our, to our, yeah, we're, we're getting to the endpoint.

[00:12:07] Bob Ruffolo: And, and by the way, just, just on that note,

[00:12:09] Luke Wilson: yeah

[00:12:10] Bob Ruffolo: we as humans, w- w- one of the things we can tell the difference is between how fast it responds, right? And that's actually a benefit when we get a good answer, a pretty good answer, 'cause you could have a human agent that makes typos, types slow in a chat, or maybe they're offshore.

[00:12:26] Bob Ruffolo: Uh, uh, not that there's anything wrong with that, but if you, you, if it's not done right, it could be a very frustrating experience dealing with a human. But AI, um, will be more clear, it'll be more articulate, have better grammar, and it'll be faster. And so of course it's not perfect either, but in a lot of ways it could be better.

[00:12:47] Luke Wilson: Yeah.

[00:12:48] Bob Ruffolo: go ahead. I'm sorry.

[00:12:48] Luke Wilson: customer-- No, no, no, don't apologize at all. This customer fought us to use AI. They're like, "I want my live receptionist. I want..." And they were also my largest, um, I-I'm gonna use the word complaint. It's not a [00:13:00] negative connotation, but we, uh, we employ a lot of folks in, in the state of Texas. A, um, Hispanic accent or a Spanish-speaking accent is just,

[00:13:08] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:13:08] Luke Wilson: part of our life, right?

[00:13:09] Luke Wilson: Like that's many folks here. Fifty percent are bilingual, right? It just is. And they would complain because they're not in our region, and they're like, "Hey, we've, we're getting this offshore accent." I'm like, "We're not offshore." Like I'm telling you, that person's in San Antonio, Texas. That we are not offshore. With AI, they... I mean, we had to drag them to use our AI receptionist. They're like, "We don't want robots answering our phone." Like, we don't want... What they found was exactly what you just said. It's clear, it's concise, it's understandable. It, there is no dialect on it, right? Like it is, it is one hundred percent the customer knows they're talking to an AI agent.

[00:13:40] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah.

[00:13:41] Luke Wilson: it. And I think that's the, the folks that are winning, they flip the switch where they're like, "Oh no, this doesn't need to feel like a human. I'm using this because it's a better experience."

[00:13:52] Bob Ruffolo: That's right

[00:13:53] Luke Wilson: what they, the, this particular company, they've adopted our conversational SMS. They've adopted now, um, where it's a [00:14:00] communication pattern.

[00:14:01] Luke Wilson: So if the text stops, our AI outbound will just make a call. So they, they're, they're thinking through the process more than just, um... Some that we have that are, they're, they're partially hanging in there, and they think they've adopted technology. They have like three back and forths.

[00:14:16] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:14:16] Luke Wilson: and what we're learning with these folks is the customer's customer, our customer's customer, wants to be able to complete the transaction, right?

[00:14:24] Luke Wilson: They want to be able to know that when I'm done with this communication, someone's coming. And I think that's industry agnostic, right? Like

[00:14:32] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. Yeah

[00:14:33] Luke Wilson: if I'm-- what I'm in, I wanna know that when I'm done, I can now mentally move on to the next deal that I've got to go accomplish.

[00:14:40] Bob Ruffolo: So, so, so repeating back, one of the things that, that the best do differently is embrace AI. And I think we could sit here and be like, everyone's gonna be like, "Oh, we all embrace AI," but are you embracing it and bold enough to say, "You know what? It is gonna be at the front of my customer, uh, uh, [00:15:00] prospect response experience."

[00:15:02] Bob Ruffolo: Everyone that comes into our environment is gonna inter- interact with an AI agent, whether it be through text or voice, and we're gonna make that work, and we're, we're gonna push ourselves to do that, and we're gonna accept that's the way we're going to do it moving forward because it's better than a call center in a lot of ways, and it's better than me not calling them back until I'm off the roof, or better for, than, than I, I, when I come out of the basement bec- or when I, when I have cell service, right?

[00:15:31] Bob Ruffolo: It's ... Or, or, or even just i- in a B2B environment when our sales person gets off another call and can respond because, again, those precious seconds matter. If I reach out and I get an immediate answer and I'm like, to your point, finish the transaction within a minute, I've already got my meeting booked, I know the next steps, and, uh, I c- checked off my list.

[00:15:52] Bob Ruffolo: This is done. What a great experience. Oof, that's money. That's absolutely money.

[00:15:57] Luke Wilson: Yes.

[00:15:58] Bob Ruffolo: Okay, so

[00:15:59] Luke Wilson: this company [00:16:00] actually touts our virtual assistant. I can... I, I don't wanna speak for them. I don't n-remember if they tout it as virtual or AI assistant, but they're, they're, like, in front of the messaging. Like, "Hey, to help you, we know you're busy. We know that you... This is... So we are now going to provide...

[00:16:15] Luke Wilson: We've listened. We've heard you. We're going to provide a better way for you to get service." And again, I'm gonna keep saying it, that's industry agnostic, right? If

[00:16:24] Bob Ruffolo: Да

[00:16:24] Luke Wilson: the expecta- Where people become frustrated is they, um... I would say, like, with me, I, I end up flying a lot for work. I travel all over the country 'cause our customers are all over the country, right?

[00:16:34] Luke Wilson: And so when I have to change a flight or I need help with something from the airlines, I expect to talk to a person on the other end, and now I'm hung in this really bad AI technology loop because they didn't set the right expectation. If they would say, "Hey, look, you have two paths. You can go down the AI agent, get this done, whatever, or I can put you on hold for this, you know, live person," I would choose the AI agent.

[00:16:55] Luke Wilson: I'd say, "Okay, great." But now I have an expectation that, uh, that's the experience I'm going to [00:17:00] take versus I'm on hold for this experience and they're shoving me into this one. I think that is where this customer that, that I'm referencing wins is they're not shoving a customer into an experience that they weren't expecting.

[00:17:13] Luke Wilson: They're saying, "Hey, look, this is actually a benefit. This is awesome. If you use us, we have a chat bot on our website. Just go there. Just chat away. You don't need to call us. Don't worry

[00:17:22] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:17:22] Luke Wilson: Right? Like, it's not... I, I would say I always use the reference point of Amazon. If you've ever tried to call Amazon, good luck.

[00:17:28] Luke Wilson: You can't find the number, right? You can go so deep on their website trying to find. They push you to chat 55 times. They push it be... And you know the beauty of Amazon is I don't have to talk to anybody. It just

[00:17:39] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:17:39] Luke Wilson: And if I need a return, I just go click, and it's, uh, because that's my experience that I've, I am told I'm going to receive.

[00:17:46] Luke Wilson: I think that's the education on the speed to lead is how are you setting the pathway for your customer to say, "Look, we're the, we're gonna be the first to respond, and also this is gonna be a better experience 'cause you're not even gonna have to engage with someone that may not have an answer." [00:18:00] Our technology always has a path to the answer, and that's why we use the technology, right?

[00:18:04] Luke Wilson: Like they... It's just the setting, setting the proper path for that speed to lead.

[00:18:08] Bob Ruffolo: Lu- Luke, this is such gold, so, and, and we're gonna go into some, so much more in this episode as well. So if, number one, um, accept the fact that AI is going to be handling your, your, your, um, inbound leads, um, because it's going to do it better than humans can do. Um, and then two, um, having, um, these pathways, but I would say it's almost like having multiple pathways, right?

[00:18:31] Bob Ruffolo: Some people are going to wanna call in. Some people will want to just self-service right there on their phones and interact with a chat or whatever it is. But I think even more importantly, whatever that is, you're talking about completion of that task within minutes, uh,

[00:18:47] Luke Wilson: Yes

[00:18:47] Bob Ruffolo: or, even less than a minute, right?

[00:18:49] Bob Ruffolo: The fastest to complete the, the next step is, that's so mission critical here. Um, and, and I am not sure if anyone's really thinking about it. So from the time I reach [00:19:00] out, the clock is ticking, and if it's 15 minutes to, to finish that task, 'cause by the way, 15 minutes, I'm on somebody else's website,

[00:19:07] Luke Wilson: Mm-hmm

[00:19:08] Bob Ruffolo: I'm, probably filling out their...

[00:19:09] Bob Ruffolo: And if they get to me, or 30 minutes goes by and now something else in my life has come up, and now that's my priority, and then the phone rings, and I'm not gonna answer 'cause I'm onto this right now, and it's like, I'll get back to that when I can. Time kills all deals. Like, that n- that minute from like reach out to complete a task is like so critical here

[00:19:31] Luke Wilson: Yes. I think five years ago, we all said you have to be the first to answer. we're, we're doing our customers a disservice now is you have to be the first to complete the conversation, not to answer. You have to be the first to get where... And I, I get a lot of pushback. Uh, my customers say, "My customers don't use AI, and they don't understand."

[00:19:49] Luke Wilson: And so I always give them this. I, I live about sixty miles south of the city of Austin. I'm a part-time cattle rancher, and my, I would have maybe six neighbors within [00:20:00] miles and miles and miles, right? One of the old farmers that lives across from me, he's been... He lives in the home he was born in, and he's seventy-eight years old, right?

[00:20:08] Luke Wilson: So, like, this is the guy, he, he doesn't watch TV. There is no... He uses ChatGPT. He literally go, uh, "What's the mix on this fertilizer that I'm supposed to use?" And he goes to ChatGPT, and he goes, "Am I using the right one for goat weed or not? I can't remember." And I mean, this guy's seventy-eight, and he's my one neighbor within like six miles, right?

[00:20:28] Luke Wilson: Like, and so don't tell me your customers don't use AI. Yes, they do. If this old rancher that, like, doesn't even shut the door on his vehicle when he pulls up to his house and just leaves it open, right? Keys are hanging and everything. That guy is using AI. Your customers are expecting the AI. It's not, it's the fact that, that you're not setting the path and just letting them know, "Yeah, we do.

[00:20:48] Luke Wilson: Absolutely, we do." Like, jump in there and let's get rolling

[00:20:51] Bob Ruffolo: Oh, amazing. All right, so let's, um, let, let's go a little bit further here now. So, um, we just hit on multiple pathways. What are [00:21:00] you seeing in the market right now in terms of customers? Again, thinking industry agnostic. Um, what are the options that the most of the market is looking for from most businesses?

[00:21:09] Bob Ruffolo: So we've talked about some people are still gonna want to call, um, some people w- will want to fill out a form and get a response maybe. Um, we mentioned chat. Um, what else are you seeing, and how should most businesses be maybe changing what they did a few years ago on their sites or, uh, wherever they're generating leads from to a better way today to, to, again, complete that task within a minute?

[00:21:33] Luke Wilson: I, I, what blows my mind still is that we're all not li- You don't realize nobody sits at a desktop. nobody, nobody's at a laptop. Nobody sits at their... Everybody completes these transactions on their phone. If your, your website has to be mobile first, uh, y- you, like, I, I don't even know why... Like, internally, we don't even develop desktop-based application.

[00:21:54] Luke Wilson: Like, we develop mobile first to where you can get it on your laptop, and that's fine, but we realize our [00:22:00] customers use their phones, so why are they not connecting that their customers use the phone, right? And it's, I, I would say there... We have found that the live person, typically they want it as an escalation point. Most consumers today, and, and I'm gonna use home service because I don't wanna speak for different industries. This one may not be industry agnostic. I, I'm not certain. I kinda feel like it is because I think it's a human thing. But the e- escalation point, I wanna talk to a human. When I reach a level of frustration, I need a pathway out, like I, I wanna speak to somebody, but I am completely okay with chatting away.

[00:22:34] Luke Wilson: And, and I think web chat on your phone is a big deal because, like, people, they, they can't really verbalize it, but they could type it all day long, right? And so to interact with this web chat, it can't be clunky. It, it, it can't pop up 65 times and never really answer a question, 'cause then people are like, "Ah, get that off.

[00:22:50] Luke Wilson: I, I want..." So I think you, you need to think through the experience and how we all buy And then take it to your [00:23:00] customers. The phone is where everything resides. They, they wanna pay on their phone, they wanna text on their phone, they wanna go on a web chat on their phone. They want it to link to their Google Calendar so that way it just automatically puts an invite and they know when it's coming.

[00:23:13] Luke Wilson: Like, everything is in that phone. And so when you talk about your pathways there, needs to be easy for them from their phone. Whether they go to your Google business page, they need to have a link to click and say Schedule. If they're on Facebook, they need to have a link that says, "Boom, I'm gonna click and I can schedule."

[00:23:29] Luke Wilson: Like it... You just need to think of you have seconds for them to

[00:23:33] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:23:33] Luke Wilson: with you. And, and this is the biggest pieces. I, I don't care how big or small your business is, audit that process because there's, the, as soon as it's broken and frustrating, they're never coming back,

[00:23:44] Bob Ruffolo: That's right

[00:23:45] Luke Wilson: you two seconds, and if it's broken, they're clicking on a link and it doesn't attach or it doesn't open or it doesn't, or they get the, what's the 401 error or the whatever.

[00:23:53] Luke Wilson: Like, there, I, you don't know how many sites I go to of our customers and it takes me to a link and the page is broken. And you're like, "Guys, this [00:24:00] is not..." They're literally going to the next guy. It's not, they're not, they're not stopping. They're not giving you, they're, they're, they're just not giving you help.

[00:24:07] Luke Wilson: So I, I ramble a bit, but the phone and then the pathways to the phone, whether it comes from Angie, whether it comes from Thumbtack, whether it comes from Facebook, just in fact it should be one click.

[00:24:18] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:24:19] Luke Wilson: be like, "Look, I just wanna schedule. I, I just need to schedule. Here's my problem," And I would actually say some of the ones I'm seeing win the most are just these multiple choice pick lists. So I go, instead of having to type it out, I'm like, "Yeah, schedule. Okay, great. Uh, HVAC problem? Yes. Uh, furnace or air conditioner? Air conditioner. Broken or just not work- Broken. Okay, great." Right?

[00:24:40] Luke Wilson: Like it's the, to where I can just go bam, bam, bam, bam, and now I've got somebody coming to help me

[00:24:45] Bob Ruffolo: So it's like, um, so you're saying audit your process, and I would say, um, uh, that, that's one of the things to best do differently, which I think is a great thing for anyone listening is go do an audit now. But I wouldn't say just do one audit.

[00:24:59] Luke Wilson: No

[00:24:59] Bob Ruffolo: [00:25:00] one for a couple months from now and get into a habit of every, at least every couple months, go shop your business.

[00:25:05] Bob Ruffolo: Just be a ghost shopper and pretend like you're a buyer. Go through the entire experience. What'd you learn? What could be better? What could be faster? What could... Where's the friction? Where would I hit the but- the, the Back button and, and the Next button, really? Now, now there is no Next button, but basically what you're doing is like you'll be like, "All right.

[00:25:23] Bob Ruffolo: I'm done with this. Next," and moving on to somebody that is better. Um, that's such a great, great suggestion there.

[00:25:30] Luke Wilson: And you have to also remember, leads are coming from everywhere, right? Leads are coming from the, uh, a home service, a, a person looking for your service, um, I use Angie and Thumbtack a lot just because that's in our home service world. But

[00:25:41] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:25:42] Luke Wilson: Thumbtack actually is across the board, right? Like, people just, they Google or they, they ChatGPT, "How do I get this done?" And then you have these sponsored links that come up. So you just have to make sure as everything's coming in, they can easily get connected and respond and [00:26:00] go. And I think we all think, "Well, if they go to my website, then it's awesome." Yeah, but they don't really go to your website, right? Like, they go through all these ancillary ways and, and they're not on their laptop at the end of the day doing it.

[00:26:10] Luke Wilson: They're... The wife or husband just called and said, uh, "There's a leak in the plumbing," and I'm at work and I grab my phone and I go find a plumber, right? Like, it's, it's on

[00:26:18] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:26:18] Bob Ruffolo: You know what's interesting too as you're saying that, um, my behavior, um, is, um, I often will go to like a Facebook, like a community Facebook group. If I'm looking for somebody in my area, I won't actually go... I won't even put a post in there. What I'll do is I'll just go search for electrician, plumber, whatever, um, and I'll look to see the posts that other people have asked over the last year or so, and then I'll check all the comments.

[00:26:49] Bob Ruffolo: And you're right, I'm then probably, when I see the link and some people will tag a Facebook, then I'm on their Facebook page. And that's another channel for like, all right, how fast is it for me [00:27:00] to get in contact with a company on Facebook, which could be, you know, Messenger or something along those lines.

[00:27:05] Bob Ruffolo: So, so I think your point is that there's lots of ways, and especially if you're doing everything else we talk about with the Endless Customer System, and by the way, you're a good business that does good work and you have a good reputation, then you're going to get referrals and people saying, "Oh, call this person.

[00:27:23] Bob Ruffolo: Call my girl. Call my guy. They're great." You're gon- going to get that from so many different channels. And so you have to have a nice flow from everywhere, also understanding where all your customers are finding you and, and making sure that you're optimizing that experience to the, to your point, to make it really seamless for them to complete that first task.

[00:27:43] Luke Wilson: You also can't keep up with it by yourself. You have no idea how many customers that are really good that we love to death, and I ask them for their phones, and they have nine thousand text message threads in there, and they don't have any contacts saved, right? Because these are just people that have texted them to do jobs [00:28:00] and follow up, and I'm like, "Okay, I'm Mrs.

[00:28:02] Luke Wilson: Such-and-such. Can you find me in there?" "Oh, yeah, hold on." And they're scrolling, scrolling, scroll. I'm like, "You're not keeping up." Like, there's no way. I can't keep up with my business, and I have an amazing team. Our team is a rock star level team, and I can't keep up. So to your point of like you and I are search...

[00:28:20] Luke Wilson: I use Facebook all the time because I want to read the comments. Um, in the ranching world, everybody says they can put up fence, right? But very few do it well. And everybody like, "So you wanna go read it, right?" You went, "Okay, I need this done. I'm gonna go read this." Like, you can't keep up with all... It's, I, um, I was talking to a person in the home service community, and I said, "You know, with omni-channel communication now, everything's coming from everywhere.

[00:28:42] Luke Wilson: It's,

[00:28:42] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:28:43] Luke Wilson: it's h- do you think that's a problem?" They're like, "That is the problem." Like it's not-- there, that's not a problem, it's the problem. How in the heck do I respond to website leads, email leads, uh, provider leads, Google LSA stuff, Google business page [00:29:00] stuff, text messages from referrals, phone calls too.

[00:29:03] Luke Wilson: Some people are still calling me. Like, you can't keep up. I don't care if you're just a small little business. You're still getting inundated from all these different channels. You should be, right? If everything's working, then, then you're getting inundated.

[00:29:14] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:29:15] Luke Wilson: use technology. You've got, you've gotta get on the technology side.

[00:29:17] Luke Wilson: You've, you've gotta help address it

[00:29:21] Bob Ruffolo: That makes so much sense, Luke. 

[00:29:22] Bob Ruffolo: So that's great. And a- as we think about this, um, you just mentioned a lot... And especially there's some trades right now, like electricians, that are just, they have more demand than they can handle, but that's not gonna be forever.

[00:29:32] Bob Ruffolo: Um, and then they're also gonna have leads that come in, and they are, those leads are still gonna have the problem, but maybe they're kicking the can down the road. They're not gonna buy right away. And if you're not capturing all those contacts in a database, a system where you can remarket to them, stay top of mind.

[00:29:50] Bob Ruffolo: And also, on top of that, a lot of the companies that we work with, and, and for most businesses in the trades, and if you're not doing this, you should be doing, there's also more money to be made after the initial [00:30:00] sale. There's service agreements, there's, there's so much more you could be doing with these, these companies.

[00:30:05] Bob Ruffolo: So if you're not capturing all this demand and getting it into a, a spot... By the way, some people might start with one company, and that company can totally drop the ball. And are you making sure that you have systems in place to, to make sure the next week, the next few weeks, the next month, the next few months, that you're just staying top of mind so they can say, "Hey, listen, I started..."

[00:30:24] Bob Ruffolo: Maybe a lead's like, "I started with this company, and then, you know, whatever, it didn't work out, so that's why I'm reaching back out to you." And if they're just sitting as a message in your inbox and you're not doing anything with it, that's a massive missed opportunity

[00:30:39] Luke Wilson: I'm gonna take you one step further that I got

[00:30:41] Bob Ruffolo: Let's go

[00:30:41] Luke Wilson: even thought about this. Um, I, uh, I, I needed some work done at the house. did not choose this particular provider. I went with someone that is a, a customer of ours, right? 'Cause you always try to use people that, that you're helping, right?

[00:30:55] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:30:56] Luke Wilson: this other provider uses a competitor of mine, [00:31:00] they have an AI chat just the same as we do. Like, everybody who's, who's trying to help customers is trying to drag people into, like, "Look, there's a better way to do this." Followed up with me, wanna say, I'm gonna give you seven to 10 days later, and just said, "We know you didn't choose us.

[00:31:16] Luke Wilson: We're just checking to make sure your needs were taken care of. Is there anything we can do for you?" And I thought, wow. Like, how many times have you been burnt by a contractor and now you're frustrated? And man, if this text message would've came in and I was unhappy, I would've responded and said, "Actually, no."

[00:31:34] Luke Wilson: Like, "No, no, I'm not happy. I, you know, this guy left me hanging over here." I thought, what a great ... We immediately went to work of building it into, to our drip campaign and the way that our AI processes because I'm like, why wouldn't you follow up with every single person, whether they chose you or not? You don't know.

[00:31:50] Luke Wilson: And then, so I said, "No, I'm good at this time." And it said, "Okay, great. No big..." It was chat back. It was actually really good, right? It was

[00:31:55] Bob Ruffolo: yeah

[00:31:56] Luke Wilson: um, it then pinged me at the end of the conversation and it said, "Look, [00:32:00] hopefully we've provided a good experience and we've earned some trust from you. Do you have any friends or family that you might be able to recommend us to?"

[00:32:06] Luke Wilson: And I'm like, oh, I didn't even use these guys for service and they're asking me for a referral, right? And I was like, yeah, because I thought if you, it's, what, you miss every shot you don't shoot, right? Like, why wouldn't you

[00:32:17] Bob Ruffolo: Wayne Gretzky

[00:32:17] Luke Wilson: and, and, yeah, why wouldn't you go ahead and do it? And I, so immediately, that's something we were not doing.

[00:32:22] Luke Wilson: Our company did not do that for our customers. And I'm like, that's a valuable opportunity right there of just that follow-up on even something that's not a sale. And if you're not using an AI technology tool, you don't have the time to follow up with people that you didn't service. Like, you're, that's never even crossing your mind.

[00:32:37] Luke Wilson: Why would I ever even follow up with that person? I'm taking care of the

[00:32:40] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah.

[00:32:40] Luke Wilson: that chose me.

[00:32:41] Bob Ruffolo: You know, it's interesting you say that 'cause, uh, a, a few, um, a few episodes ago, uh, we had Shane Rogers from a company called Zintex on, one of our clients, and we were talking about reviews, and they had a ton of reviews.

[00:32:52] Bob Ruffolo: But what was really interesting was, um, they were asking for re- uh, multiple reviews from the same company. So [00:33:00] instead of just saying, "Hey, the job is complete. Will you give us a review?" They were asking after the sales experience or after the first initial consultation or when the job is completed, when the service is done, and they get four or five reviews from the same customer.

[00:33:11] Bob Ruffolo: Um, so even here, you know, they're, they're asking for a referral, they could also ask for a review. And, you know, data is still important because as a prospect or AI, having that, that third-party information saying what that sales experience and what, what, what should I expect a- and, and fuels all that is, is still very valuable to buyers and, and will still help the brand overall.

[00:33:32] Luke Wilson: Absolutely. I, I, I, I, and, and this is where I lean into technology. Like, I'm a human person. I'm a relationship person. I love a cup of coffee with somebody. Like, I just, I love the human inter- Probably everybody that knows me, I love to talk way too much, right? I just, I love that. But at the end of the day, you are not going to keep the customers you have or grow your business without using technology to better serve them.

[00:33:55] Luke Wilson: Like, just

[00:33:56] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:33:56] Luke Wilson: down. We made a, a fundamental pivot in our business, [00:34:00] uh, because we needed, I... The whole thing, and I think this will resonate with, with, uh, everyone listening, made a statement one day that, that I was tired of people saying they use AI, that every business that I'm a competitor with, they'll say, "Hey, we use AI."

[00:34:12] Luke Wilson: I'm like, "Yeah, no crap." That would be like me telling you this morning I checked my email on my iPad, you'd be like, "Yeah. I mean, that, that doesn't even... Like, okay. Yeah, that checks out. Why are you bragging about that," right? Like, that you can fire up an iPad. What's the... What are we doing here? I'm like, the Businesses, I think the day is gone when we all can say, as business owners, where we all can say we're using AI.

[00:34:33] Luke Wilson: I think home service, industry, whatever it is, needs to say, of course, we're using AI. We provide you a better experience," right? And when you make that mental switch, it, now that's that, um, 80 to 100 that we're all seeking, right, is that switch in their mind of like, "Yeah, no, yeah, of course, I'm using AI, and here's how I'm using it."

[00:34:52] Luke Wilson: Like, I, I go from 80 to 100 to close every freaking deal possible because I'm asking for reviews at every single point. [00:35:00] I'm not just the first to respond, I'm the first to complete the entire scheduling transaction. Like, there's just, we have to get bigger as, as entrepreneurs and think, "Okay, but how do I, how do I truly take care of my customer?

[00:35:12] Luke Wilson: How am I not just checking a box?" Does that make sense?

[00:35:14] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah.

[00:35:14] Luke Wilson: just...

[00:35:14] Bob Ruffolo: Oh, absolutely

[00:35:15] Luke Wilson: the lead is always checking a box. "Oh, I'm first to respond. Yeah, no, got an autoresponder. I'm good. Check a box." I think it's bigger than checking a box.

[00:35:22] Bob Ruffolo: It's bigger, not only is it bigger than checking a box, but the box that you checked a year ago might not be the box you'd be checking right now.

[00:35:29] Luke Wilson: Guaranteed it.

[00:35:30] Bob Ruffolo: and evolve so rapidly

[00:35:32] Luke Wilson: yeah, and it won't be the same in 12 months. I'm just telling

[00:35:35] Bob Ruffolo: That's right.

[00:35:35] Luke Wilson: out. It just keeps going faster and fa- I, I have, uh, uh, I actually talked to a competitor of mine the other day. The kid is 17 in Ontario using AI to develop a product, and I'm telling you, this product was amazing.

[00:35:47] Luke Wilson: Like, I was looking at his product and I'm like, "Holy cow, this kid's got a billion-dollar brain on him," right? Like, this kid is a- But he, he, also not a computer science guy, doesn't write code, doesn't anything. [00:36:00] AI's doing all this for him, but he is fully in it because he's younger and his brain is there, and I'm telling you, the product this guy rolled out, I was like, "This is amazing."

[00:36:10] Luke Wilson: And, and so what we're seeing in the home service space is we're seeing guy my age, my son or daughter is now taking over the business. They don't... It's just AI first, right? Like, they're, that's

[00:36:19] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:36:20] Luke Wilson: their whole life. And the speed of communication, they've been flipping 10 seconds at a time their whole life.

[00:36:25] Luke Wilson: That's all they've been doing, right? And so if you're not keeping up with that and you're saying, "Oh, this has always worked for me," kinda like my dad and grandpa used to say to me, my grandpa, we were in retail space, and my grandpa would always say, "Back of the sports page is the best page to... You know, that's where we advertise because guys flip through."

[00:36:41] Luke Wilson: And I was looking at an online presence, and I'm like, "No, that's not it." And he's like, "Don't get away from the sports page." I don't even read the sports page now. Like, we would've been dead and gone, right? Like, I don't even get the spor- I don't even know that I can buy a paper anywhere right now, right? So at the end of the day, like, it just, it goes faster and faster.

[00:36:59] Luke Wilson: We gotta [00:37:00] keep up

[00:37:00] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah. And what I heard there is you have to be willing to change. So what, what,

[00:37:05] Luke Wilson: to

[00:37:05] Bob Ruffolo: so- we get so stuck like, "Oh, we've done this forever. It's always worked for us," until the day it doesn't work for you. Now, now Luke, um, you mentioned you're a technology guy. Um, you have an incredible technology part, uh, product.

[00:37:18] Bob Ruffolo: That's why we have a relationship, is because I've been so impressed, uh, with what you and your company have built. Um, you're doing a phenomenal job, and I would like you to, uh, just take a couple of minutes here, um, now talk about what Signpost is, what the product is, and how people can leverage this tool to do everything we just talked about in this entire episode

[00:37:38] Luke Wilson: Yep, I'll give super high, super high level because, uh, I'm actually more passionate about the conversation than the tool itself. But the, uh, what

[00:37:46] Bob Ruffolo: It's a great tool though

[00:37:47] Luke Wilson: Well, we appreciate that, and we have so much room to grow, right? 

[00:37:50] Luke Wilson: So we do four core things, right? We, we help you take a lead in, ingest it, schedule it, right? Get it booked. Uh, we-- That scheduling and that lead addressing are the [00:38:00] two core. The third and fourth is invoicing and quotes and then collecting payments. Where we, our, our sweet spot, where we really focus is using AI technology on that speed to lead and getting a customer locked in and scheduled.

[00:38:13] Bob Ruffolo: Yeah

[00:38:14] Luke Wilson: piece, we have an AI conversational tool that will text back and forth with anyone, if they're a previous customer, if they're a new prospect, whoever. You control it. This is the thing a lot of people, "I don't want something going crazy on me." No, this is the, it's using your website for information.

[00:38:30] Luke Wilson: It's using a knowledge base that you might have for information. It's also using intake questions that we've set up ahead of time to how you wanna guide a conversation or what you need to know to better serve your customer. All of that is put into it, right? So

[00:38:44] Bob Ruffolo: And from the people I've seen, and, and from the people I've seen that use your software, it is so easy to set up. It's like, all right, you know, it takes a little bit of time. It's not, it doesn't happen overnight, but, but the b- more that you set it up, and again, you give it an hour or so, it really will do it for you.

[00:38:58] Bob Ruffolo: And, and, you know, we just talked [00:39:00] about the completing that first task, completing the getting everything scheduled. Um, uh, how does this tool help specifically with that?

[00:39:08] Luke Wilson: It literally takes you all the way through scheduling, right? So it literally goes, "Hey, look, you have an open time." It, it will go in and check your schedule. You... Those are the things you have to keep up to date. There's still a little work to it, right? You still have to make sure, because it's, um, I always tell people it's garbage in, garbage out.

[00:39:24] Luke Wilson: So AI is a great tool, but if, if you don't update your calendar, it can't pick when you need to put people on a calendar, right? So you're like, we had somebody complain, said, "This guy booked me on a Sunday." I'm like, "Yeah, you didn't show Sunday as you don't want booked." So, like, it's gonna book... The customer asked for Sunday, it booked you on a Sunday, right?

[00:39:39] Luke Wilson: Like, that's what it does. So there is a little bit of work there, but it takes through the conversation, addresses the concern, says, "Great, we'll take care of you." Boom. "We have a, we have a time on Tuesday, 10:00 and 2:00. Which one do you want?" All the things you would do on a phone or you would do over the text, it gets you to that point to where now you don't have a lead, [00:40:00] you have a booked appointment, right?

[00:40:01] Luke Wilson: And that's, that's one of the things we said

[00:40:03] Bob Ruffolo: so here's what I'm hearing. So, um, a few minutes goes by, this person reaches out to the company. Maybe you were doing something else and you see the lead come in, but by the time now you see it, this is app- appointment's already scheduled. You're like, "Whoa, that's pretty cool. I have something booked on Tuesday," and it just took care of everything for you.

[00:40:19] Bob Ruffolo: Comes in th- via phone calls, uh, via conversations from any platform, handles all of that so that really within minutes you're just the whole po- uh, the whole part of the process where people reach out to get that appointment scheduled done

[00:40:34] Luke Wilson: And I'll take it one step further. When you see that booked, you open our app and you say, "Okay, I'm gonna click that," and you see, oh, it came in through Angie and I paid 35 bucks for that lead. Okay. Well, I know what I need to do now. I need to go close this deal, right? Or, oh, this came in

[00:40:50] Bob Ruffolo: Da

[00:40:50] Luke Wilson: my website.

[00:40:51] Luke Wilson: Let me see if they're a previous customer. Oh, yeah, I used them before. Right? It just gives you, you, you now, you're not spending a bunch of time trying to get it booked. You're now [00:41:00] educating yourself so you can go close the deal

[00:41:01] Bob Ruffolo: Amazing. Amazing, Luke. Now, if, um, somebody wants to learn more about Signpost, uh, how do they get in touch with you? I'm gonna imagine you have a great speed to lead process yourselves

[00:41:12] Luke Wilson: We do. We respond quickly. And our technology, we use it. So we eat our own dog food. But they can go to signpost.com. I think that's the best place to learn about us. Um, I'm L Wilson at Signpost. I also take calls and emails every single day. Happy to, to engage and, and do that and put you in the right place.

[00:41:28] Luke Wilson: I am not always your best resource. Sometimes I'm a blocker, so then I will put you with the right resource. But yeah, we, we love taking care of our customers

[00:41:35] Bob Ruffolo: Well, this has been a great episode, Luke, and, and thank you so much for coming on, sharing how companies should be thinking about that part where someone reaches out to you, 'cause, hey, just because we got a lead doesn't mean we're gonna have a customer. How do we optimize that? I think there was a lot of great stuff we talked about today, so thank you so much for coming in on the episode

[00:41:53] Luke Wilson: I'm just so grateful for the opportunity, so thank you very much

[00:41:57] Bob Ruffolo: Uh, and this has been another episode of the Endless Customers Podcast. [00:42:00] We will see you at the next episode. 

[00:42:01] Stephanie Baiocchi: If you liked this episode, please take a minute to leave us a review. Thanks for checking out the Endless Customers Podcast.